#clojure log - May 17 2016

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1:30 ilevd: How I can setup timbre to print exceptions?

1:31 dysfun: it doesn't "print exceptions", but you can log an exception object you have caught

1:31 ilevd: And uncaught exceptions?

1:34 Hm, it seems I need to set stdout, stderr to file to do this

1:35 dysfun: you can register a global uncaught exception handler

1:35 and log it

1:38 ilevd: Thanks, I think it's what I need

1:39 dysfun: but you really should try and catch exceptions in your code

1:43 ilevd: I know, now I need quickly find an existing error

1:43 dysfun: ah :)

3:11 ilevd: Errors in pmap aren't caught by setDefaultUncaughtExceptionHandler -_-

3:12 dysfun: another reason not to use pmap

3:13 ilevd: Or i forgot to use doall..

4:00 I do (future (try ... (catch Exception e (log e))), but message isn't infromative: java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.NullPointerException

4:00 Any ideas?

4:01 dysfun: nullpointerexception means you've tried to call something as a function and it was null, or a function argument to a java function was null

4:02 ilevd: I expected some stacktrace, maybe line number

4:04 amalloy: blame whatever that log function is

4:12 ilevd: I can blame only myself

4:19 .getStackTrace, .getMessage, .getCause return nil or java.lang.NullPointerException

4:53 TMA: ilevd: the java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException wraps java.lang.NullPointerException

4:53 ilevd: therefore .getCause returns the wrapped java.lang.NullPointerException

4:53 ilevd: try .getStackTrace and .getMessage on the java.lang.NullPointerException from .getCause

5:40 ilevd: @(future 10)

5:40 ,@(future 10)

5:40 clojurebot: #error {\n :cause "no threads please"\n :via\n [{:type java.lang.SecurityException\n :message "no threads please"\n :at [clojurebot.sandbox$enable_security_manager$fn__857 invoke "sandbox.clj" 94]}]\n :trace\n [[clojurebot.sandbox$enable_security_manager$fn__857 invoke "sandbox.clj" 94]\n [clojurebot.sandbox.proxy$java.lang.SecurityManager$Door$f500ea40 checkAccess nil -1]\n [java.lang.Threa...

5:50 paolo_: hey guys, i'm having problems using eval: i can't use clojure.math functions inside the expression to be eval-ed, can anyone help me?

5:57 TEttinger: clojure.math may need to be required again in the evaled code, but I'm half asleep what am I doing

6:09 Guest48: if I'm using map to execute a function a bunch of times on a sequence, and my call to map immediately finishes and the function I'm executing does not executed (as the log statement never runs) - what fundamental point is it likely I'm missing? I can log the sequence just before I run the call to map, and it has some elements in it

6:10 TMA: Guest48: map returns a lazy seq; if you do not force the realization, it will never be realized

6:10 Guest48: ah so I should (doall (map ... ?

6:11 the behaviour seems different in the repl

6:11 TMA: Guest48: if you map for the side effects, then yes.

6:11 Guest48: because the result is realized for printing out

6:12 ,(= nil (map println [1 2 3]))

6:12 clojurebot: false

6:12 Guest48: TMA: thanks loads. I had a feeling there was some fundamental thing I was not grasping

6:12 TMA: Guest48: see -- if the result is not printed, then it is not realized even in the REPL

6:13 ,(= nil (doall (map println [1 2 3])))

6:13 clojurebot: 1\n2\n3\nfalse

6:13 Guest48: oooh

6:13 It is taking me a while to grasp these fundamentals despite an embarrassing amount of time tinkering with clojure

6:14 thanks for your very useful explanation and example

6:14 TMA: Guest48: it'll just click together sooner or later, keep trying :)

6:14 Guest48: :) yup will get there in the end!

6:14 yes everything is now exactly working as expected

6:14 thanks!

6:15 TMA: you are welcome

10:35 sdegutis: How are you?

10:43 Okay.

10:45 fijro: When evaling a var, you don't have to type out the whole namespace. I type `+` instead of `clojure.core/+`. In my program I need to simulate this behaviour - and would like to know where in the Clojure source code I can study how that works? In what function is the 'full' name of a var completed?

10:46 justin_smith: fijro: eval uses the bindings of the current namespace to figure out how to resolve a symbol

10:46 fijro: you don't need to simulate the behaviour, you can call resolve

10:46 ,(resolve '+)

10:46 clojurebot: #'clojure.core/+

10:47 hiredman: fijro: in the compiler if I recall there is a method named resolveSymbol

10:48 fijro: justin_smith: thank you, that's great to know. I need to reimplement that function, because ns in my app is a list that begins with a list that begins with a symbol 'ns. Don't know if I have misunderstood clojure, but feels like the ns part of it was not programmed in the clojure way of 'everything is data'...

10:48 hiredman: fijro: but you are likely to be more interested in resolve and ns-resolve

10:48 justin_smith: fijro: ns is a macro, it creates a namespace object

10:48 fijro: a namespace object owns some hash-maps from symbols to vars

10:49 fijro: hiredman: justin_smith: great to know. Thank you. The coffeeshop I'm coding in is closing and I've got to get going, but thanks!

11:53 sdegutis: Found a nice way of saying "(:quantity x) > 1"

11:53 ,(map (comp pos? dec) (range 3))

11:53 Hahahhahaha

11:53 clojurebot: (false false true)

11:53 sdegutis: I know it's cheating but totally worth it

11:54 dysfun: not (comp pos? dec :quantity) ?

11:54 sdegutis: Yeah that.

11:54 But I got lazy and didn't want to make maps.

11:55 I wonder if there's a shortcut for (comp dec dec)

11:55 Man, I should make one. Fricken, what is it again? The thing that adds them together.

11:55 dysfun: yes, but it's longer

11:55 sdegutis: Repeatedly?

11:55 iterate?

11:55 Yeah apply iterate repeat dec n

11:55 or something

11:57 ,((->> dec (repeat 2) (apply comp)) 3)

11:57 clojurebot: 1

11:58 sdegutis: ,(def dec-by #(->> dec (repeat %) (apply comp)))

11:58 clojurebot: #'sandbox/dec-by

11:58 sdegutis: ,((dec-by 2) 7)

11:58 clojurebot: 5

11:58 sdegutis: Surely it can be prettier.

12:01 Granted this is only a stepping stone for pos?

12:01 Something like greater-by?

12:03 Oh wait that reads unlogical.

12:03 And that ladies and gentlemen is why I do not write helper functions.

12:40 momerath: contains? is broken for transient sets; can anyone recommend a working equivalent? Allocation profiling definitely justifies trying to make this set transient.

12:42 hiredman: https://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/util/concurrent/ConcurrentSkipListSet.html

12:43 why people use transients for anything other that fast creation of a collection, I have no idea

12:43 momerath: ah- yeah, I guess I could use that; thanks hiredman!

13:14 sdegutis: momerath: transients should only be used briefly and turned into non-transients as soon as possible

13:15 momerath: the purpose of transients is to increase performance in creation of data sets in spots where performance matters

13:15 momerath: sure- that's true of the set in question, though the function is complex; it's very much an inner-loop

13:17 I used a plain java.utils.HashSet and I'm now allocating about 15% less in what might be called a cycle

13:18 dysfun: if you're in a tight loop, it's what mutables were made for

13:32 justin_smith: dysfun: I'm gonna get a decorative noose to hang on the wall and have a plaque by it that says "The Tight Loop".

13:32 momento mori kind of thing

13:36 dysfun: justin_smith: that's just asking to be involved in some sort of event where a coworker goes crazy and hangs your manager with your tight loop

13:36 and you're gonna be prime suspect

13:36 justin_smith: that's why I wouldn't have a petard (which are notorious for hoisting their owners)

13:37 dysfun: in six months time, you'd better hope we start the "free justin_smith" campaign

13:37 "free justin_smith, the rest of us have had to answer clojure questions"

13:54 sdegutis: hello

13:55 will_sm: hello

14:01 sdegutis: Fk freeing justin_smith. I refuse to answer Clojure questions.

14:01 Wait, how's that go?

14:21 What's a thing for like has-fraction?

14:21 Like, if you were to divine things, then it's intergral.

14:21 Like, (f 1/3) is false, but (f 2/4) is true

14:21 dysfun: wut?

14:22 justin_smith: dysfun: he's asking for a test for rationals vs. irrational numbers

14:22 dysfun: oh

14:22 then he should have said so!

14:22 sdegutis: I just mean 'does this thing have anythig beside szeroes after the decimal?"

14:22 MJB47: i though ti was a test if a fraction could be simplified or not?

14:22 ah ok

14:22 sdegutis: How do you say this mplore simply?

14:23 justin_smith: sdegutis: how does 2/4 satisfy but not 1/3 ?

14:23 MJB47: justin_smith said it well i think

14:23 sdegutis: "Is this thing really an integer?"

14:23 justin_smith: 2/4 is 2.0 1/3 is 0.33

14:23 MJB47: 2/4 is not an integer

14:23 luma: 2/4 is 0.5

14:23 justin_smith: sdegutis: wat

14:23 idev: where can I read an analysis of datomic vs relational model ?

14:23 sdegutis: Maybe (float x) = (int x) is what I want?

14:23 justin_smith: oh, he meant 4/2

14:23 sdegutis: justin_smith: yes, 4/2

14:23 Thanks

14:23 idev: I'm trying to figure out if EAV or Relational Model is the right appraoch for my needs

14:23 MJB47: oh

14:23 sdegutis: I do not understand math very well.

14:24 justin_smith: ,(defn integral [n] (== (int n) n))

14:24 clojurebot: #'sandbox/integral

14:24 justin_smith: ,(defn integral? [n] (== (int n) n))

14:24 clojurebot: #'sandbox/integral?

14:24 justin_smith: ,(integral? (/ 4 2))

14:24 clojurebot: true

14:24 justin_smith: ,(integral? (/ 2 4))

14:24 clojurebot: false

14:24 sdegutis: Yeah that's what I was thinking of a spossible solution

14:25 But is it the RIGHR one?

14:25 will_sm: you're testing a string?

14:25 justin_smith: sdegutis: definitely use == instead of =

14:25 sdegutis: I'm testing a denomenator and a numerator

14:25 I have both individually

14:25 They may be combined into a ratio if need be.

14:25 luma: there's integer?, which returns true for int, long, bigint and biginteger

14:26 sdegutis: luma: but I have two ints

14:26 Actually two longs.

14:27 e.g. 11500/9

14:27 luma: ,(integer? 4/2)

14:27 clojurebot: true

14:27 luma: ,(integer? (/ 4 2))

14:27 clojurebot: true

14:27 sdegutis: Why the crap does this warn on reflection (= (double 11500/9) (long 11500/9))

14:27 ,(= (double 11500/9) (long 11500/9))

14:27 clojurebot: false

14:28 sdegutis: Ah, == not =

14:28 will_sm: is this the same as checking if (= 1 (gcd n d))

14:28 sdegutis: will_sm: hmm interesting idea

14:28 will_sm: what does gcd do? it's not in clojure.core

14:28 will_sm: greatest common divisor/factor, not in clojure

14:29 luma: ,(integer (/ 11500 9))

14:29 clojurebot: #error {\n :cause "Unable to resolve symbol: integer in this context"\n :via\n [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException\n :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: integer in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)"\n :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6688]}\n {:type java.lang.RuntimeException\n :message "Unable to resolve symbol: integer i...

14:29 luma: ,(integer? (/ 11500 9))

14:29 clojurebot: false

14:29 sdegutis: luma: int

14:29 luma: sdegutis, why isn't integer? good enough?

14:29 sdegutis: Oh heck yeah, interger? works!

14:29 justin_smith: ,(integer? (/ 4 2))

14:29 clojurebot: true

14:29 will_sm: , (defn gcd [a b] (if (zero? b) a (recur b (mod a b))))

14:29 sdegutis: ,(map integer? [4/1 4/2 4/3 4/4])

14:29 clojurebot: #'sandbox/gcd

14:29 (true true false true)

14:30 sdegutis: Heck yeah!!!

14:30 justin_smith: ,(integer? (/ 4 2.0))

14:30 clojurebot: false

14:30 sdegutis: Great job everyone.

14:30 justin_smith: sdegutis: as long as you never see floats, that should work

14:30 sdegutis: Never ever.

14:30 I have two longs.

14:31 What the crap?

14:31 (defn integer? [n] (or (instance? Integer n) (instance? Long n) (instance? clojure.lang.BigInt n) (instance? BigInteger n) (instance? Short n) (instance? Byte n)))

14:31 That's it's real definition, no foolin

14:32 Oh, it's because of /

14:32 ,(type (/ 4 2))

14:32 clojurebot: java.lang.Long

14:32 sdegutis: fricken,

14:32 whatthecrap

14:32 justin_smith: ,(type (+ (/ 1 2) (/ 1 2)))

14:32 clojurebot: clojure.lang.BigInt

14:32 sdegutis: ,(for [i (range 5)] (class (/ 4 (inc i))))

14:32 clojurebot: (java.lang.Long java.lang.Long clojure.lang.Ratio java.lang.Long clojure.lang.Ratio)

14:33 engblom: ,(type (/ 1 2))

14:33 clojurebot: clojure.lang.Ratio

14:34 sdegutis: ,(for [i (range 5)] (class (/ (inc i) 4)))

14:34 clojurebot: (clojure.lang.Ratio clojure.lang.Ratio clojure.lang.Ratio java.lang.Long clojure.lang.Ratio)

14:35 sdegutis: ,(clojure.lang.Numbers/divide 4 2)

14:35 clojurebot: 2

14:35 sdegutis: That's why.

14:35 will_sm: sdegutis, so have you solved the problem?

14:35 sdegutis: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/Numbers.java#L155-L160

14:36 will_sm: technically yes, but I won't be satisfied until I understand why '/ gives me the answer I want so easily.

14:38 which uses https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/Numbers.java#L1012-L1033

14:39 which in my case of two longs always uses https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/Numbers.java#L417 for ops() ctor

14:43 so (/) with two Longs uses https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/Numbers.java#L489-L506

14:44 And oh look, it has a variable named "gcd" just lik will_sm was talkin bout (maybe-ish)

14:44 luma: yes, it's the same function

14:44 greatest common divisor

14:44 will_sm: (gcd 2 4)

14:45 ,(defn gcd [a b] (if (zero? b) a (recur b (mod a b))))

14:45 (gcd 2 4)

14:45 clojurebot: #'sandbox/gcd

14:45 will_sm: ,(gcd 2 4)

14:45 clojurebot: 2

14:45 will_sm: ,(gcd 3 4)

14:45 clojurebot: 1

14:46 will_sm: ,(gcd 6 8)

14:46 clojurebot: 2

14:46 sdegutis: Yall are good at math

14:47 will_sm: I almost became a math major, glad I chose to earn a good living instead

14:47 sdegutis: i have no fricken clue what this code does in my last link

14:48 but whatever, i trust that its doing the right thing based on what will_sm said plus his anecdotal qualifications


14:50 ,(clojure.lang.Numbers$LongOps.)

14:50 clojurebot: #error {\n :cause "No matching ctor found for class clojure.lang.Numbers$LongOps"\n :via\n [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException\n :message "java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching ctor found for class clojure.lang.Numbers$LongOps, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)"\n :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyzeSeq "Compiler.java" 6875]}\n {:type java.lang.IllegalArgumentException\n :m...

14:50 bikeshedr: will_sm, hey, don't discourage me :p

14:52 sdegutis: I almost worked at factory third shift for the rest of my life, until my hobby combined with a series of strange events led to me becoming a competent software engineer.

14:52 kwladyka: wow.... i was rejected by Cognitect because i didn't know emac shortcuts.... recruitment process is totally random monster

14:52 sdegutis: Sh!t, 90 are integers but 29 are not.

14:53 hfaafb: how many does Cognitect employ

14:53 sdegutis: kwladyka: I was rejected by them because I am awkward and lack proper social skills.

14:53 kwladyka: but my employer is pretty happy with me so I guess cognitect missed out :P

14:53 will_sm: bikeshedr, if it makes you feel better, I will be working in hell/imperative programming for at least the next year

14:54 sdegutis: kwladyka: meaning, don't worry if they rejected you, they probably missed out on a great employee by not hiring you :P

14:54 kwladyka: sdegutis yeah... and i get in the same time feedback i have very strong skills etc..... but emacs...

14:54 sdegutis: will_sm: what lang?

14:54 dysfun: imperative programming isn't *necessarily* hell

14:54 will_sm: Haven't started yet but they use C++, Python, Java, & Go

14:54 bikeshedr: will_sm, a little :)

14:54 sdegutis: kwladyka: meh it's just one editor out of many, granted it's pretty darn great

14:54 will_sm: oh wow, you'll have fun with that one

14:54 dysfun: it just makes it a lot easier to make mess

14:55 sdegutis: will_sm: life is a waterslide where you die at the end

14:55 Hmm. How to figure out how many decimal places a thing has

14:55 kwladyka: i really cared about that job and put a lot of energy in that, but during one pair session i was talking with true emacs user

14:56 sdegutis: (= (map f [1/4 2/4 3/4 4/4]) [2 1 2 0])

14:56 What's f?

14:56 kwladyka: damn... do you know good Companies coding in Clojure which looking remote contractor? :)

14:56 dysfun: what is a "true" emacs user anyway?

14:56 kwladyka: dysfun only emacs matter, your editor sucks

14:56 * dysfun uses emacs

14:57 kwladyka: dysfun but i think you have distance to it :) ( i hope ;) )

14:57 dysfun: no, it's just that i deal with so much shit software on a daily basis that emacs is comparatively unannoying except when it randomly breaks during upgrade

14:58 all software sucks, all hardware sucks

14:58 anyone telling you otherwise is a liar

14:58 kwladyka: i was trying emacs last 7 days very intensively. In my opinion emacs had great time, but time has changed :)

14:58 dysfun true

14:59 MJB47: my biggest issue with emacs was i spent too much time configuring emacs

14:59 instead of actually working on whatever i needed to work on

14:59 :(

14:59 dysfun: you do eventually get it into a steady state where it works 'enough'

15:00 will_sm: I limited myself to tweaking emacs for 10 min, every other week

15:01 ben_vulpes: > emacs

15:02 > works enough

15:02 how true

15:02 it helps to only scratch one itch at a time

15:02 kwladyka: dysfun what you will stack with things like colour syntax for .less files :)

15:02 *but

15:02 ben_vulpes: "dang it would be neat if focus jumped to the compile buffer on compilation failures"

15:02 kwladyka: i am trying atom editor, it looks very good, first impression is very strong

15:02 dysfun: you will hate it before long

15:03 ben_vulpes: that's the webkit one?

15:03 dysfun: text editors are not meant to run in the browser

15:03 i think it's browser and/or node-webkit

15:03 MJB47: electron

15:04 which is like node webkit

15:04 kwladyka: dysfun i don't have to use all features

15:05 dysfun: yeah, emacs people think that for the first week or so

15:05 kwladyka: but for using it as emacs it looks very good, but still i spend only few hours with it

15:05 *it - atom editor

15:06 dysfun: 'using it as emacs'

15:06 er, no. you have missed the point of emacs

15:06 engblom: kwladyka: Somehow I think you spend too much time thinking about the tools rather than coding :)

15:06 BamBalaam: Hi everyone! Does anyone know of a Clojure and/or Overtone that does music pitch detection?

15:07 kwladyka: engblom i was forced to it as you can see from my recrutiment process

15:07 BamBalaam: If not, any hint on any library for signal processing?

15:07 dysfun: hrm, i can't help but notice there's a big lack of signal processing libraries listed on clojure toolbox

15:08 will_sm: BamBalaam, IDK, but if straight pitch detection can't be done, you can use a Fourier transform to pick out the most dominant frequencies

15:09 dysfun: https://sourceforge.net/projects/dsplaboratory/

15:09 engblom: BamBalaam: If you get something like that done, please drop me on PM a link to the project. I know a person needing a such library

15:10 dysfun: http://www.source-code.biz/dsp/java/

15:11 BamBalaam: will_sm: it could be a good idea, for a quick and dirty first draft. I see how I could implement a FFT but not how to split open the music track in clojure

15:11 dysfun: thanks for the links, will go through them

15:12 will_sm: BamBalaam, what is the source of the audio? Is it files?

15:12 BamBalaam: engblom: Whatever I achieve will never be extremely good

15:13 will_sm: Yes, music files

15:14 I think I'll start with really simple tracks just with basic notes/chords. If the solution works with more complex tracks, better, but not strictly necessary

15:15 will_sm: Found this lib for working with audio files, https://github.com/candera/dynne

15:17 BamBalaam: will_sm: thanks, will have a look at it ! :)

15:30 kwladyka: dysfun no, i didn't but as i said i was using atom only 2-3 hours and i don't know too much about it yet. But generally it looks like you can do with it everything like with emacs. Only one thing what you can't do is run on ssh.

15:35 sdegutis: How do you tell if a double only has 2 digits after the decimal?

15:38 justin_smith: will_sm: even fourier is tricky - the stuff actually implemented (fft) doesn't give you the actual frequency, it gives you a set of evenly spaced bins and you need to figure out the centroid from that using statistical methods

15:40 BamBalaam: overtone is just a DSL for the supercollider API, it can use all the UGens that supercollider defines and they are well documented, including multiple pitch detection methods

15:41 BamBalaam: this article compares three methods https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~kermit/website/scpitch.html

15:42 but frankly given examples and documented usage, it's a lot easier to just use sc directly and overtone just makes using it more complex

15:42 will_sm: justin_smith, gives a histogram of frequencies over some time interval. But yeah, given you still have lots of other problems such as start/end, chords, bin parameters and smoothing... how do ppl do it!

15:43 justin_smith: will_sm: but the frequencies have no relationship to the input

15:43 will_sm: they are just evenly spaced based on the algorithm parameters

15:43 finding the actual frequencies in the input requires statistical analysis

15:43 BamBalaam: justin_smith: I'm not extremely familiar with the supercollider API since I'm just starting with Overtone (or clojure for that matter!). It has pitch detection?

15:44 justin_smith: thanks for the article, will read it, it's interesting!

15:44 justin_smith: BamBalaam: it has multiple pitch detection algorithms

15:44 BamBalaam: justin_smith: ok great, thanks for the information! :)

15:45 will_sm: justin_smith, wat. Fourier transform takes a signal and decomposes it to sine waves

15:45 justin_smith: will_sm: for example, if your bin is enough samples for 1/20th of a second, your detected frequencies will always be 0, 20, 40, 60, 80, 100, .... hz

15:46 to detect a 90hz input you either naively assign 80 or 100, or you use the spectrum spread behavior of the algorithm to derive the actual centroid

15:48 BamBalaam: oops, quit irssi by mistake

15:48 will_sm: justin_smith, use a higher resolution than, in practice I haven't had issues with aliasing, but then again, i don't have much practice

15:48 BamBalaam: but thanks everyone for the pointers in the good direction :)

15:49 justin_smith: will_sm: my point is that the fft only gives specific frequencies in the output, and will give you data per bin, and the frequencies of the bins are fixed by the algorithm, and have nothing to do with your input

15:50 will_sm: often the naiive usage is sufficient, but with a little interpolation / analysis you can do a lot better

15:50 but no, fft never actually gives you "the frequency of the input", the algorithm simply isn't capable of such a thing

15:53 will_sm: justin_smith, interpolation on results of fourier or resample audio? Have any source?

15:54 justin_smith: interpolations of fft to find centroids that are the actual input frequencies

15:56 will_sm: even the wikipedia page for fft will tell you that if your bin spacing is 20 hz, there will be no 90 hz bin - it's not even possible. The energy of a 90 hz input will be split evenly into the 80 hz bin and 100 hz bin. If you naiively scan for the bin with the most energy, that can cause a fundamental at 90 hz not to be detected

15:56 will_sm: or double the samplerate

15:57 justin_smith: will_sm: that's outside the algorithm, and you have the same problem again if you try a 95 hz input

15:57 will_sm: I mean, take your audio and change the sample rate

15:57 justin_smith: point is that fft never gives you the actual input frequency directly, but statistical methods on fft results can

15:58 will_sm: all that matters is the bin resolution in hz, but sure, changing input frequency can help you get more bin precision

15:59 but I think this is all a bit OT for this channel

16:00 will_sm: yeah, and we're getting nowhere lol. I might research it more later

16:01 BamBalaam: your discussion is super interesting though haha

16:01 I'm just an extreme noob in the subject

16:02 and my teacher simply totaly overevaluated the difficulty of the subject, given how we have close to no knowledge in signal processing

16:02 (I know the basic math behind it, and that's...pretty much it)

16:03 But I just might take the easy way out and try to use supercollider functions in Overtone (still gotta check how that's possible) and that might just be it

16:04 will_sm: when I installed supercollider, it came with the SuperCollider IDE, you can try that. I have yet to try it. Think I'll stick to standalone music hardware

16:04 justin_smith: BamBalaam: overtone definstrument is a macro that generates supercollider instrument definitions that are loadable by the supercollider synth server, that runs separately (it's a c++ program)

16:04 and then overtone talks to the scsynth server via UDP

16:06 BamBalaam: also, there are very friendly interactive tools for this stuff in matlab too

16:06 BamBalaam: justin_smith: I see. So in theory I could read the music file into a buffer, and use definstrument to interface with supercollider? I'll look into it

16:07 justin_smith: I know. Unfortunately I really *HAVE* to use Overtone. It's... Silly.

16:07 *shrugs* University

16:07 justin_smith: yeah, sounds about right - though supercollider is much more oriented to real-time, while mathematica makes it easier to do offline analysis

16:07 ahh, got it

16:07 dysfun: julia is gonna shit all over mathematica one day

16:08 will_sm: justin_smith, you know if there is any significant latency from overtone->supercollider or supercollider->jack

16:09 I was really dissapointed with julia. Well, it was mostly the arrays. Weren't as good as numpy

16:09 sobel: i want to like Overtone more but i own a copy of Ableton Live

16:09 justin_smith: well, overtone doesn't even touch the signal data, and jack is going to get the best latency performance available usually

16:10 sobel: that's like saying "I want to like clojure but I already have excel" - these are tools of different levels of power designed for different kinds of tinkering

16:11 dysfun: justin_smith: i want to like clojure but i already have a banana

16:11 sobel: it's like saying "i want to like clojure but i already have excel AND know all its macros, have friends who regularly send me excel sheets, know how to extend it in C++ when needed, know how to interface it to all the services i need to integrate with my organization, ...

16:12 i want to like clojure but i have a hammock

16:12 dysfun: then go lie in your hammock and stop trying to write code

16:12 it won't make you happy

16:12 sobel: . o O (one day)

16:12 justin_smith: sobel: if you needed to get an array of detected pitches in hash-maps as edn from ableton live, how would you do that?

16:13 will_sm: export to midi and convert to edn

16:13 sobel: justin_smith: probably export detected pitches through some interface in Max

16:13 dysfun: yeah, and how's the emacs support for ableton?

16:14 sobel: it's pointless

16:14 that's how it is ;)

16:14 justin_smith: I'm just saying, these are different kinds of tools - you can get a csv out of excel too of course, but they are really oriented for different approaches

16:14 max is just supercollider with point and click instead of text

16:14 dysfun: it's 2030 and the libreoffice import csv function still doesn't work by defualt

16:15 sobel: i used to do tons of CLI music/synthesis but i could not even come close to a good creative workflow that way

16:15 justin_smith: and ableton began life as a crazy max patch

16:15 Gh0stInTheShell: "Now it's the year three thousand and thirty, everybody wants to be an MC."

16:18 will_sm: Don't have windows anymore, I miss my DAWs

16:18 dysfun: can we invent our own expansions for acronyms we don't recognise?

16:22 sdegutis: Why is it that (/ 23000 18) must exist

16:22 ,(/ 23000 18)

16:22 clojurebot: 11500/9

16:22 sdegutis: ,(double (/ 23000 18))

16:22 clojurebot: 1277.777777777778

16:22 sdegutis: fricken..

16:22 dysfun: you'd love number theory sdegutis

16:23 sdegutis: dysfun: I'm guessing I'd actually find it incredibly inconvenient

16:24 will_sm: your hatred for these numbers is irrational

16:25 dysfun: inconvenient?

16:25 i dunno, a lot of number theory is pretty important

16:26 e.g. RSA derives its hardness from number theory

16:26 will_sm: Are you trying to count infinite decimal places now?

16:31 sdegutis, so what project are you working on?

16:32 sdegutis: will_sm: a commercial website

17:08 ,(double 95/15)

17:08 clojurebot: 6.333333333333333

17:08 sdegutis: thanks OBAMA

17:25 kenrestivo: that's interesting. the compiler has no problem with [:timestamp] but pukes on [:@timestamp]

17:26 tells me that there's an unmatched delimiter [

17:26 not being able to handle :@timestamp puts a cramp in using elasticsearch from clojure

17:26 ,(select-keys {} [:timestamp])

17:26 clojurebot: {}

17:26 kenrestivo: ,(select-keys {} [:@timestamp])

17:26 clojurebot: #<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Invalid token: :>

17:27 kenrestivo: :(

17:27 justin_smith: kenrestivo: that's terrible, but you can use [(keyword "@timestamp")] but the better option is not keywordizing

17:27 kenrestivo: ,(select-keys {} [(keyword "@timestamp")])

17:27 clojurebot: {}

17:27 kenrestivo: i like keywords

17:27 justin_smith: but you want to use "keywords" with invalid names

17:27 kenrestivo: also clj-http does that when you {:as :json} but i can manually work around that

17:28 is :@ invalid?

17:28 justin_smith: ,(select-keys {(keyword "@timestamp") ::yes} [(keyword "@timestamp")])

17:28 clojurebot: {:@timestamp :sandbox/yes}

17:28 TEttinger: I'd assume so, since @ is the deref macro

17:28 justin_smith: yeah, you are messing with the reader there

17:28 kenrestivo: oh, reader macro. grrr..

17:28 TEttinger: at-timestamp

17:28 kenrestivo: i can mangle the names on ingress to remove @'s

17:29 TEttinger: can you use strings?

17:29 justin_smith: so you can use the keyword function, or accept that you want to look things up that are not valid keywords and switch to string lookup

17:29 I guess there's mangling too, but that's the least simple option

17:29 kenrestivo: i hate strings so i'd rather sanitize the keys.

17:30 justin_smith: invalid keywords are worse than strings

17:30 ,(keyword "\n\n\n")

17:30 clojurebot: :\n\n\n

17:30 kenrestivo: hahaha

17:30 kwladyka: what is the difference between paredit and parinfer?

17:30 justin_smith: paredit has commands for moving parens, parinfer moves parens when you indent

17:30 TEttinger: ,(keyword "@$&^\ufeff()")

17:30 clojurebot: :@$&^()

17:31 kwladyka: justin_smith thx

18:08 sdegutis: How do you say "this double has no more than 2 decimal places, I'm sure of that"?

18:08 Or better yet, "this double ends with a repeating decimal place"?

18:14 Ah

18:14 (integer? (* x 100))

18:14 Got it.

18:15 amalloy: .(integer? (* 1.05 100))

18:16 ,(integer? (* 1.05 100))

18:16 clojurebot: false

18:17 sdegutis: ,(integer? (* 100 (/ 52373 10)))

18:17 clojurebot: true

18:17 sdegutis: ,(integer? (* 100 (/ 23000 18)))

18:17 clojurebot: false

18:26 amalloy: those aren't doubles

19:18 toastycj: I read or heard somewhere that clojure syntax is a derivative of another general language ? I couldn't find reference to it anymore after googling a bit.

19:18 If somebody can let me know, it will be great.

19:18 It's not lisp, from what I heard.

19:19 justin_smith: the closest relative is scheme

19:24 ben_vulpes: is let a recur target? i'm losing my mind over here

19:24 it shouldn't be right RIGHT?

19:24 justin_smith: no

19:25 amalloy: that question is curiously urgent when lacking punctuation

19:26 like you're not just emphasizing the question, you're grabbing me by my collar and shaking me. "right RIGHT?"

19:27 ben_vulpes: yeah well when you feel the world moving under your feet and the only sane answer is "no you're wrong and stupid for making the mistake in the first place"...

19:31 TEttinger: toastycj, clojure can be described as a dialect of lisp, in the same way scheme is a dialect of lisp, and common lisp is a dialect of lisp (usually when people say Lisp without qualification they mean common lisp or the early lisps that predate common lisp)

19:32 clojure makes more departures from scheme and lisps in general than many other implementations, syntax-wise

22:53 sdegutis: amalloy: sometimes they are

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