#clojure log - Apr 12 2015

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0:46 lexi-lambda: Are any of Trammel, clojure-contracts, or core.contracts commonly used?

0:47 LaVidaPortland: Not that I've seen, but I'm pretty new to clojure.

0:48 lexi-lambda: What is the usual way of ensuring preconditions, then?

0:48 I.e., if I have a function that requires a string, what's the idiomatic way to guard against something else getting passed in?

0:50 LaVidaPortland: Not sure, but what about using type hints for that scenario?

0:50 lexi-lambda: Of course, the usual Java approach for non-type-based preconditions would be if (n < 0) throw something;, but that seems like clutter compared to a good contracts system.

1:31 nuwanda_: lexi-lambda: you could use :pre to test the args type

1:48 justin_smith: hell, I've seen "if we're counting the number of elements in a linked list, and this is the last element, throw something" in java

1:51 adu: justin_smith, wut

1:51 justin_smith: adu: it was in the .length method for LinkedList in an old openjdk

1:51 hell, it may still be there

1:59 adu: justin_smith, there is no length method for LinkedList

1:59 justin_smith, did you mean size()?

2:06 justin_smith: adu: clearly I misremembered

4:08 Fare: is there a disassembler to look at the JVM bytecode produced by clojure?

4:10 TEttinger: Fare: javap should be included with your JDK

4:10 http://www.theserverside.com/news/1363881/The-Working-Developers-Guide-to-Java-Bytecode

4:10 * Fare sees https://github.com/gtrak/no.disassemble

4:11 Fare: I'd like to see how much better the code is than a naive interpreter... and maybe convince colleagues to rely on that technology instead of reinventing it, badly

4:12 TEttinger: oh wow

4:16 Fare: wow?

4:19 TEttinger: Fare, it's just that seems like a very bad idea to try to make your own interpreter from scratch when you already have a repl for clojure that actually does benefit from the JIT

4:20 unless it adds some very much-needed features

4:20 sveri: ambrosebs: ping

4:20 Fare: well, the interpreter is not exactly for clojure

4:20 TEttinger: ah

4:20 Fare: but I'm writing a compiler in clojure targetting clojure

4:20 TEttinger: could it be written as an internal DSL?

4:21 Fare: not sure what you mean.

4:21 The source language is some python-like language

4:22 TEttinger: internal DSL as in, a domain specific language that's made with macros or whatever but ends up, once macroexpanded, as perfectly viable source in another language (hopefully clojure)

4:22 ah

4:22 Fare: and it has to integrate into a java application.

4:22 TEttinger: ah.

4:23 sounds like "fun"

4:23 Fare: "indeed"

4:23 TEttinger: the compiler sounds like the best option by far

4:23 Fare: duh

4:25 TEttinger: if you can maybe figure out a way to compile in separate units of code (like a method that corresponds to a single form in clojure), you could call your compiler on such a unit of code and pass it in to a running clojure repl

4:26 Fare: coming from CL, I really enjoy the clojure data model and its concurrency model. I think its paucity of control structures sucks, though.

4:26 it's a survivable suckiness, especially with higher-order functions, but still.

4:27 I understand that direct integration with the substrate language "justifies" this paucity, but it still hurts.

4:27 TEttinger: so they type in, myFoo = "bar"<hits enter> then your compiler compiles that to your clojure equivalent, say, (def myFoo (atom "bar")), thrusts it into the repl, and runs it

4:27 Fare: basically

4:28 TEttinger: I haven't had any issues with a lack of control structures tbh

4:28 Fare: though a compiler is only interesting if the compiled files are cached.

4:28 if it were a run-once kind of thing, the interpreter would make more sense.

4:28 TEttinger: right, this might have to be a separate thing huh

4:28 having macros does make control structures fairly convenient to work with though

4:29 Fare: yes, macros and higher-order functions help survive that.

4:29 TEttinger: I'm not sure if you mean something different from doseq, for, loop/recur, etc.

4:30 Fare: and you can emulate delimited continuations in userland. But then, you can't interact well with other people's code, and pay a hefty price in performance.

4:32 compared to CL's loop's, its lexical block/return, or (yuck) tagbody/go, clojure is a bit poor. But yes, it does make it up in other ways.

4:33 handler-bind is also a big thing I miss from CL. Not obvious how you'd do it on the JVM though

9:29 sobel: justin_smith: btw i found my emacs package issue. melba repo had to be manually added.

10:12 d'oh. calling System/exit affects my repl.

10:22 justin_smith: you don't say?

10:24 sobel: System/exit is how I usually shut down my vm

10:31 $mail Fare many people use no.disassemble to read the clojure bytecode output, and also the bytecode is generated with a lib called asm

10:31 lazybot: Message saved.

10:42 matthavard: I'm using the byte-streams library (https://github.com/ztellman/byte-streams) to read a file into a byte array. In my file, foo.html, there is a character/byte that has a value of 0x92 (146 decimal), which I have verified using a hex editor, but if I do `(map int (to-byte-array (java.io.File. "foo.html")))`, the integer at the corresponding position of the character is -110

10:43 justin_smith: matthavard: there are no unsigned bytes in java

10:44 matthavard: Hah yeah I just thought about that. It overflows to -100

10:44 justin_smith: ,(- 146 127)

10:44 matthavard: *-110

10:44 clojurebot: 19

10:45 justin_smith: matthavard: yeah. The no unsigned thing makes java stuff with bytes a little painful sometimes.

10:45 it's the same 8 bits...

10:46 there's probably a good trick for taking a byte and returning the int you would get for those 8 bit values, with all other bits being 0

10:46 ,(bit-and -128 256)

10:46 clojurebot: 256

10:46 matthavard: ,(bit-and -128 -110)

10:46 clojurebot: -128

10:47 afhammad: can someone take a look at this compile time error for me, its probably something silly https://www.refheap.com/99531

10:47 justin_smith: ,(bit-and -110 256)

10:47 clojurebot: 256

10:47 justin_smith: ergh

10:47 oh, two's complement

10:47 ,(bit-and (bit-xor -110 256) 256)

10:47 clojurebot: 0

10:47 justin_smith: anyway, I bet there is some trick, maybe after I wake up more

10:51 ,(defn uns [b] (if (pos? b) b (dec (* -1 (bit-xor b 255)))))

10:51 clojurebot: #'sandbox/uns

10:51 Uruviel: Hey! I'm using the Buddy wrap-access-rules. Currently I have a seq of rules like [{:uris ["/projects/:project-id"] :handler owns-project?}], but when inspecting the request map in owns-project? the project-id is not in the params (it's empty, in fact)

10:51 justin_smith: ,(uns -110)

10:51 clojurebot: 146

10:51 justin_smith: matthavard: ^

10:51 Uruviel: is there a way to make buddy-auth parse out the params?

10:52 justin_smith: matthavard: definition for "uns" is up there if you scroll up a little

10:57 matthavard: thanks justin_smith

10:57 uns for un-sign?

10:57 justin_smith: haha, yeah

10:57 terrible name

10:58 but better for a one liner

10:58 matthavard: ha it's great.

10:58 ,(uns -110)

10:58 clojurebot: #error{:cause "Unable to resolve symbol: uns in this context", :via [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException, :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: uns in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)", :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6535]} {:type java.lang.RuntimeException, :message "Unable to resolve symbol: uns in this context", :at [clojure.l...

10:59 justin_smith: matthavard: clojurebot unloads definitions fast

10:59 matthavard: ,(sandbox/uns -110)

10:59 clojurebot: #error{:cause "No such var: sandbox/uns", :via [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException, :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: No such var: sandbox/uns, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)", :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6535]} {:type java.lang.RuntimeException, :message "No such var: sandbox/uns", :at [clojure.lang.Util runtimeException "Util.java" 221]}], :trace [[clojure....

10:59 justin_smith: ,(defn uns [b] (if (pos? b) b (dec (* -1 (bit-xor b 255)))))

10:59 clojurebot: #'sandbox/uns

10:59 matthavard: ,(uns -110)

10:59 clojurebot: 146

10:59 matthavard: ha awesome

10:59 justin_smith: with a little extra fiddling, it could take an optional bit-count arg

10:59 to work on shorts, ints, longs

11:02 hmm, shorts and ints is easy, longs is tricky...

11:04 matthavard: Is there a way to read 0x92 as a unicode character and get the correct value? 0x92 is unicode for some weird right quote thing, and I'm trying to convert all non-ascii characters to html entities like "&#x92;"

11:06 like (let [c (int (unicode (get-char-from-file-somehow)))])

11:07 TEttinger: matthavard: ##(char 0x92)

11:07 lazybot: ⇒ \’

11:07 TEttinger: matthavard: ##(char 0xa2)

11:07 lazybot: ⇒ \¢

11:10 justin_smith: matthavard: if you convert the byte-array to string, and map int across the string

11:11 when you create the string, there is an optional encoding arg (with clojure it defaults to utf-8 which is almost always the right thing in my experience)

11:12 matthavard: That would not be the standard str function would it?

11:12 TEttinger: ,(def some-bytes (byte-array (vec "hello")))

11:12 clojurebot: #error{:cause "java.lang.Character cannot be cast to java.lang.Number", :via [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException, :message "java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Character cannot be cast to java.lang.Number, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_FILE:0:0)", :at [clojure.lang.Compiler$StaticMethodExpr eval "Compiler.java" 1696]} {:type java.lang.ClassCastException, :message "java.lang.Character cannot...

11:12 justin_smith: matthavard: String

11:12 ,(get-bytes "hello")

11:12 clojurebot: #error{:cause "Unable to resolve symbol: get-bytes in this context", :via [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException, :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: get-bytes in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)", :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6535]} {:type java.lang.RuntimeException, :message "Unable to resolve symbol: get-bytes in this contex...

11:13 justin_smith: ,(.getBytes "hello")

11:13 clojurebot: #object["[B" "[B@41e6be86"]

11:13 TEttinger: there we go

11:13 justin_smith: ,(String. (.getBytes "hello"))

11:13 clojurebot: "hello"

11:13 TEttinger: ,(String. (.getBytes "hello\u0092"))

11:13 clojurebot: "hello’"

11:13 TEttinger: ,(String. (.getBytes "hello\u00a2"))

11:13 clojurebot: "hello¢"

11:13 TEttinger: there we go

11:13 justin_smith: and you can map int on that

11:13 to get the int values of each char (not byte)

11:14 TEttinger: ,(map int (String. (.getBytes "hello\u0092")))

11:14 clojurebot: (104 101 108 108 111 ...)

11:14 TEttinger: ,(map int (String. (.getBytes "hey\u0092")))

11:14 clojurebot: (104 101 121 146)

11:14 justin_smith: and the circle is complete!

11:14 matthavard: So how do I get from file object to string?

11:15 justin_smith: matthavard: we just showed you how to get from byte-array to string

11:15 matthavard: oh oops

11:15 justin_smith: you can already get byte-array from a file

11:15 there is also slurp

11:15 that directly gives a string from a file

11:16 TEttinger: (doc slurp)

11:16 clojurebot: "([f & opts]); Opens a reader on f and reads all its contents, returning a string. See clojure.java.io/reader for a complete list of supported arguments."

11:16 TEttinger: the arguments can include an encoding

11:16 mbac: has some helpful fellow done the work of writing their own clojure photo gallery generator?

11:18 matthavard: justin_smith: So theoretically (map int (String. (to-byte-array (java.io.File. "foo.html")))) should work?

11:18 and/or TEttinger

11:18 TEttinger: (map int (slurp "foo.html"))

11:18 justin_smith: matthavard: or (map int (slurp "foo.html"))

11:18 TEttinger: :D

11:19 justin_smith: heh

11:20 matthavard: And you were saying there's a way to set the encoding with that? Because that's giving me 65533 for bytes larger than 127

11:20 justin_smith: (slurp "foo.html" :encoding "something")

11:21 matthavard: supported encodings are http://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/technotes/guides/intl/encoding.doc.html

11:21 ~supported encodings is http://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/technotes/guides/intl/encoding.doc.html

11:21 clojurebot: A nod, you know, is as good as a wink to a blind horse.

11:21 justin_smith: ~supported encodings

11:21 clojurebot: supported encodings is http://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/technotes/guides/intl/encoding.doc.html

11:21 TEttinger: ~supported

11:21 clojurebot: I don't understand.

11:32 film42424: I have a code style question.

11:34 I really want to add default vars to a record, but I want to be able to introspect those, so reify doesn't seem like a good option. I ended up with something like this: https://github.com/film42/rinok/blob/f5ea4c666be270e327c83582e07d2067ba05bc09/src/rinok/engine.clj#L63-L68

11:34 I'm sure the whole thing could be more idiomatic, so maybe there's a larger problem

11:34 Would love any kind of insight

11:35 justin_smith: film42424: the normal thing is to just create a function that manages your defaults, and not use the constructor directly

11:35 which looks like what you are doing

11:35 film42424: yeah, I just mocked it to look like a standard record constructor

11:36 justin_smith: well, you actually replaced the automatically generated constructor function

11:36 film42424: since won't actually take any args, I always know what to give it. Just seems awful to override the constructor

11:36 yeah

11:36 justin_smith: see also map->MatchingEngine

11:36 which is also automatically generated

11:38 film42424: Oh wow, I didn't know about map->MatchingEngine

11:41 silasdavis: hello clojure, I'm failing to bind the dynamic vars *client-id* and *client-secret* in https://github.com/mochify/hiroba/blob/master/src/mochify/hiroba/rest.clj

11:42 I think i've just forgotten how to clojure

11:42 I've set globar-vars in my project.clj

11:42 also used binding

11:42 i'm using fully-qualified name

11:42 how should I be setting these?

11:42 matthavard: TEttinger, justin_smith: Update, looks like any of the ISO8859_* encodings work!

11:43 TEttinger: woo!

11:43 matthavard: Just went down the list and tried them one by one haha

11:45 film42424: silasdavis: What happens if you actually set them in your shell?

11:47 Oh I guess that's not how environ works

11:55 mbac: luminus is pretty shiny

11:58 noncom|2: mbac: true

11:58 Uruviel: https://github.com/funcool/buddy/issues/31

12:28 mbac: is the .html template format in luminus the same as the one in python django?

12:29 Selmer is a templating language similar to Django and Rails templates. If you're familiar with Django or similar templating languages you should feel right at home.

12:29 awesome!

12:29 this framework is filling me with entrepreneurial zeal

12:30 sobel: haha

12:30 that is hilarious/familiar

12:44 tomjack: I think Selmer's readme could use a "why?" section

12:47 justin_smith: tomjack: like why use Selmer when there's Integer/MAX_VALUE other options?

13:01 tomjack: well, I don't go in for those questions too much, I mostly look at the thing itself

13:02 basically "why would I (Clojure programmer) want to use Django-inspired templates?"

13:03 justin_smith: tomjack: in my experience there is a very productive collaboration when you have a front-end person who knows html,css,js and a back end person who does clojure,devops and the selmer template is where the two meet

13:04 tomjack: yeah, I kind of imagined that's what it's meant for

13:04 justin_smith: so it needs to comprehensible and powerful for the frontend person to get their stuff done, while also providing access to what the backend can provide

13:04 *needs to be

13:04 tomjack: like "for when you're forced to use something like Django-inspired templates"

13:04 justin_smith: haha

13:05 more like, when the front end folks don't know any clojure, but sure

13:06 tomjack: but if the author would use these templates when writing an entire project on their own, I'd also like to hear why. but it's also fine to have a readme which assumes the reader already wants X, so doesn't explain why one might want X

13:08 _1_guddu: hy

13:09 dm3

13:31 dwysocki: I'm having a problem that's probably just ignorance on my part

13:31 I'm using miner/tagged to save a record to a file in EDN format

13:31 When I parse it from the file, it properly resolves the type, with the fully-qualified namespace

13:31 but then the type is no longer considered equal its non-fully qualified form

13:31 so (= Foo my-ns/Foo) is false

13:31 I'm not really sure what to do at this point

13:32 it's causing my multimethods to fail to recognize the type

13:38 tomjack: that doesn't make sense to me

13:38 either (identical? Foo my-ns/Foo) or not

13:38 if not, why not?

13:38 if not, you have two different Foo and it's getting the wrong one?

13:40 actually..

13:40 what is even my-ns/Foo

13:40 justin_smith: dwysocki: did you run defrecord twice?

13:40 reloading files that contain defrecord can lead to this sort of thing

13:40 if you have instances created with the prior defrecord before the reload

13:41 tomjack: because they mention a tagged reader I would assume a defrecord or maybe deftype

13:41 dwysocki: defrecord should only be run once

13:41 tomjack: defrecord doesn't define a var

13:41 well, not that var

13:42 if it's the class my-ns.Foo, then it should be the same class as Foo, or else the problem is that there are two Foo :)

13:42 dwysocki: I made a CLI that starts a separate instance of my program each time

13:43 so I can do `my-program write | my-program read`

13:43 justin_smith: tomjack: the issue with re-running defrecord has nothing to do with vars. It's that you get two different classes with the same name.

13:43 tomjack: sure, I didn't expect it was a re-running defrecord issue

13:43 just "(= Foo my-ns/Foo)" doesn't make sense

13:44 justin_smith: ahh, that is looking at a var

13:44 right

13:44 dwysocki: actually, it might be a re-running defrecord issue

13:44 I'm running my program from a jar

13:45 and it's spinning up twice

13:45 the first time writes something in EDN to stdout

13:45 the second time reads it from stdin

13:45 justin_smith: dwysocki: with defrecord my-ns/Foo shouldn't even get created (though my_ns.Foo should)

13:46 tomjack: it shouldn't matter.. I suggest taking a look at some instances which don't work with your defmethods, and comparing their classes to instances which do work.

13:46 dwysocki: it actually is my_ns.Foo, sorry

13:46 although

13:46 when it's written to stdout, it uses hyphens

13:46 oddly

13:47 but when it's read, they've been replaced with underscores

13:47 justin_smith: does the tagged literal with hyphens get reloaded properly?

13:47 dwysocki: it looks like it does

13:47 justin_smith: one thing you could test is whether a single instance can generate the string for the edn, and then read it and get the same result back

13:47 dwysocki: that's a good idea

13:48 justin_smith: eliminating variales yo

13:48 dwysocki: yup

13:51 tomjack: hmm

13:51 hypothesis: you're getting miner.tagged/TaggedValue

13:52 try it with a namespace that doesn't have hyphens :)

13:52 justin_smith: dwysocki: and if that works, next step is double checking that the reading side has loaded the ns that defines that record

13:52 dwysocki: no, i'm not getting miner.tagged/TaggedValue

13:52 that was my first thought

13:52 tomjack: ah, missed this: https://github.com/miner/tagged/blob/master/src/miner/tagged.clj#L87

13:52 dwysocki: I'm testing whether (= (class x) (class (parsed-x))) right now

13:53 oh fuq

13:53 it's not =

13:53 tomjack: too bad he has to munge classnames :(

13:54 dwysocki: I'm wondering now whether I should just write the map to a file, and assume it's always that type

13:54 tomjack: not =, but has the same name?

13:54 dwysocki: yeah, looks like the same name

13:55 justin_smith: dwysocki: that's weird

13:55 so (not= x (read-string (pr-str x)))

13:56 dwysocki: precisely

13:56 justin_smith: that's messed up

13:56 what about (= (read-string (pr-str x)) (read-string (pr-str (read-string (pr-str x)))))

13:56 tomjack: gotta be a defrecord-multiple-times error?

13:57 dwysocki: ooh, I'll try that one

13:57 justin_smith: if that's a yes, then yeah my initial hunch about multiple defrecord loads is probably it

13:58 if it's a no, that is maybe a defrecord bug?

13:58 dwysocki: it's false :\

13:58 unless I mistyped

13:58 justin_smith: sounds like a bug in either the printing or reading side of records...

13:58 weird!

13:59 dwysocki: or this library I put my trust in

13:59 tomjack: if you run (class (read-string (pr-str x))) over and over, do you get a different class every time?

13:59 justin_smith: tomjack: oooh, good call

13:59 tomjack: that would be nuts

13:59 I can't imagine how..

13:59 dwysocki: maybe I'm just doing something stupid

14:00 wouldn't be the first time

14:00 nor the last

14:00 justin_smith: "programmer's program does not work, but only because they did something stupid, news at 11"

14:01 dwysocki: history in the making

14:03 huh

14:03 so when I encode it the second time and on

14:03 the type is miner.tagged.TaggedValue

14:03 but not the first

14:03 tomjack: miner/tagged has this lovely 'feature' that the record tags are handled by the default tag reader, and there is a global fallback

14:03 justin_smith: dwysocki: what's the repo for miner?

14:04 dwysocki: https://github.com/miner/tagged

14:04 tomjack: apparently there is some problem with the round-tripping of the record class/factory info for you

14:04 so the record handlers fail and it defaults to TaggedValue, confusingly printed with the same (or almost the same?) tag?

14:05 justin_smith: dwysocki: and you are using the reader that miner provides?

14:05 dwysocki: yes

14:05 so

14:06 I override print-method on my record type to call (tag/pr-tagged-record on this w)

14:06 but if it's not seeing that the types are the same

14:06 it's going to default to the standard print-method

14:07 which prints the type as my_ns.Foo, instead of my_ns/Foo

14:07 and that's why the 2nd iteration and on are all of type TaggedValue

14:08 I think I've spent too long on this problem :P I should just give up and save a standard map

14:08 tomjack: I suspect the functionality there, which could have been easily added to Clojure core, wasn't added for a very good reason :)

14:08 dwysocki: and parse it into my record, which is almost trivial

14:08 this was supposed to be the easy part of what I did this weekend, lol

14:10 I think I'll actually just use the built-in edn reader, and inspect the tag

14:10 there are only 2 types I ever expect to see

14:11 justin_smith: dwysocki: a :type key added to a map should do it

14:12 dwysocki: yup

14:12 damned type systems

14:13 justin_smith: serialization is hard

14:13 dwysocki: I thought I'd finally found a case where a defrecord would be sensible

14:13 probably could have just added a :type key

14:13 justin_smith: my primary usage of defrecord has been in combination with protocols

14:14 dwysocki: I've just been using it with defmethods

14:14 that do slightly different things on my 2 types

14:14 justin_smith: it's easy to convert those to look at a :type tag

14:14 of course

14:14 dwysocki: yeah

14:14 I realize that now haha

14:15 ugh, I don't want to change all this code now

14:53 welp, I'm finally record-free

15:41 wagjo: ,(clojure-version)

15:41 clojurebot: "1.7.0-master-SNAPSHOT"

16:18 Shayanjm: For anyone who's interested, here's the (spherical) haversine formula implemented in clj: https://gist.github.com/shayanjm/39418c8425c2a66d480f

16:19 the-kenny: Shayanjm: you might want to pull out some more stuff like (Math/sin (/ dlon 2)) into the let. There's also Math/exp

16:19 Shayanjm: the-kenny: Very good call

16:19 one min, refactoring

16:20 dwysocki: also, newlines

16:20 Shayanjm: dwysocki: I don't ever know where to break lines in big mathy implementations :\

16:20 dwysocki: I would do it for the arguments to the initial +

16:21 so I don't have to scroll :P

16:22 and when I say "initial +", I guess I mean "the only +"

16:33 zirman: I've been trying to understand y combinator. I had a version that computed factorial that I reworked it into a different form. Is it still essentially a y combinator? Thanks.

16:33 function y(y) {

16:33 return function (n) {

16:33 return n === 0 ? 1 : n * y(y)(v)(n - 1);

16:33 }

16:33 }

16:33 y(y)(5);

16:34 oops

16:34 this is what I meant

16:34 function y(y) {

16:34 return function (n) {

16:34 return n === 0 ? 1 : n * y(y)(n - 1);

16:34 }

16:34 }

16:34 y(y)(5);

16:38 Frozenlock: zirman: refheap.com

16:38 oddcully: your javascript made dnolen timeout

16:39 zirman: sorry

16:39 dwysocki: haha, I've encountered yet another serialization issue

16:39 how do you serialize Double/NEGATIVE_INFINITY?

16:39 because it's getting output as -Infinity, and parsed as a symbol

16:40 zirman: https://www.refheap.com/99541

16:51 dwysocki: I suppose the -Infinity issue is taken care of in tools.reader

17:12 LaVidaPortland: zirman, that's some strange looking clojure. :)

17:12 sandbags: cfleming: ping ... don't suppose you're an Overtone user?

17:13 cfleming: sandbags: Pong... no, I'm not. I think I know the next question, though :)

17:13 TEttinger: sandbags, I'm curious about Overtone, does something in the livecoding break in Cursive?

17:13 I have only used at-at from Overtone, which is definitely nice

17:14 sandbags: cfleming: i just tweeted a screenshot of some code in cursive

17:14 cfleming: it works but cursive seems unhappy

17:14 cfleming: TEttinger sandbags: It's not the live coding, it's the way the symbols are generated: https://github.com/cursiveclojure/cursive/issues/774

17:14 sandbags: Yeah overtone makes Cursive sad

17:15 sandbags: so if i pull in overtone.core will that fix things?

17:15 oh wait, i see, no

17:15 * sandbags actually reads the page

17:16 cfleming: sandbags: There's some hope that I might be able to fix that using stub generation, but that requires more time than I have right now.

17:16 sandbags: However stub generation is also required for datomic to work nicely, so I'll do it at some point.

17:16 sandbags: okay so basically overtone is too-much-voodoo

17:16 i mean, it's not a problem as is

17:16 cfleming: More or less, yeah

17:16 sandbags: it works

17:17 oh one thing i could really use, is there a way to write a macro to send to the REPL?

17:17 cfleming: sandbags: Sure, you could just turn off the unresolved symbols warning.

17:17 sandbags: i wrote a macro but of course it's just inserting wherever the cursor has focus

17:17 cfleming: sandbags: https://github.com/cursiveclojure/cursive/issues/85

17:18 zirman: LaVidaPortland: not clojure but it has closures

17:18 cfleming: (which is a polite way of saying no)

17:18 sandbags: cfleming: yeah, awkward

17:19 cfleming: sandbags: You could fudge a macro if you assign a Cmd-number sequence to the REPL toolwindow - then you could start your macro with that key, which will jump to the REPL toolwindow.

17:19 sandbags: but in that don't you say that will close it if the REPL is already open?

17:19 cfleming: It'll close it if that toolwindow is already selected

17:20 So if you're in a normal editor it will do what you want

17:20 sandbags: right, i think because i am switching back and forth that's likely to be annoying too often

17:21 cfleming: sandbags: Ok. I'll look into fixing that issue, it's been open for ages and it's a popular request.

17:21 sandbags: i'd hoped IDEA was a little more controllable

17:21 but the macros look pretty rubbish

17:21 cfleming: sandbags: It'll be post-Clojure/West though.

17:21 nicferrier: could a lein project generate more than one main class?

17:21 if I just put gen-class in the ns decl does that make it a main?

17:21 sandbags: cfleming: would it be possible to script IDEA in Clojure(Script) using Cursive at some point?

17:22 i mean it's Java...

17:22 cfleming: sandbags: Yeah, I'm planning that

17:22 sandbags: nice

17:23 do you get any support from JetBrains... actually do you work for JetBrains? :)

17:24 cfleming: nicferrier: Sure - you can only have one per ns AFAIK, but you can have many namespaces with main functions, no problem. I think you can only specify one in project.clj to work with lein run, though

17:24 nicferrier: cfleming: right. thanks.

17:25 cfleming: sandbags: No, I don't, but they're fairly helpful. I have one mole there who helps a lot because he's a Clojure fan, and they're more helpful in general as Cursive gets more popular.

17:25 sandbags: so, labour of love

17:25 impressive what you've done

17:26 i was cautiously happy with LightTable but since i managed to get Cursive installed I've not looked back

17:26 cfleming: Well, you're going to have to pay for it at some point :)

17:26 sandbags: sure, sure, we all gotta eat :)

17:26 oddcully: cfleming: but it will be part of ultimate? like all the other languages?

17:26 sandbags: god knows what i've paid for this hobby over the years

17:27 cfleming: oddcully: Sadly, no - that would require some sort of deal with JetBrains. It's not out of the question, I suppose, but it's unlikely to be any time soon.

17:28 oddcully: ok, so all the other ones are actually done by JB i assume?

17:28 cfleming: Or are open source, right.

17:28 But there are only a couple of decent open source ones - it's a huge amount of work.

17:28 sandbags: ye gods the overtone code is a bit complex ... i think i am goign to have to find my supercollider book to grok this stuff

17:29 oddcully: i only have python installed additional to the jvm ones. i guess that is from them (pycharm i guess)

17:31 cfleming: oddcully: Right, that's from them. The core Python support is actually open source now, but the framework and web support is not.

17:32 sandbags: Good opportunity for them to rewrite IDEA in Clojure :)

17:33 cfleming: sandbags: Ummmm.... that's unlikely to happen :-). They'll probably write more of it in Kotlin at some point I assume.

17:34 sandbags: Damned NIH :)

17:38 arrdem: are there any good composable regex DSLs for Clojure?

17:38 I'm just realizing that I have a few productions that are repeated a _lot_

17:43 TEttinger: arrdem: that seems like... a very odd idea

17:43 arrdem: TEttinger: why?

17:43 TEttinger: regexes are already a dsl, and I have no idea how you would compose them

17:44 do you mean this-followed-by-this?

17:44 arrdem: yep, or this as a group in a new production

17:44 TEttinger: I wonder... #(str #"(\w+)\1\1")

17:45 I wonder... ##(str #"(\w+)\1\1")

17:45 lazybot: ⇒ "(\\w+)\\1\\1"

17:45 TEttinger: hm

17:45 ,(re-pattern (str #"(\w+)\1\1"))

17:45 clojurebot: #"(\w+)\1\1"

17:45 scottj: TEttinger: have you seen rx in emacs? https://github.com/clojure-emacs/clojure-mode/blob/master/clojure-mode.el#L966-L983

17:45 TEttinger: not an emacs user

17:45 cfleming is my lord and savior

17:46 woaah scottj that looks outrageously verbose

17:46 * cfleming blushes

17:47 cfleming: arrdem: ztellman's automat, maybe?

17:47 TEttinger: that ztellman

17:47 always with the useful libs

17:47 cfleming: arrdem: or you could wrap a dsl around this: http://www.brics.dk/automaton/index.html

17:47 scottj: TEttinger: there are shorter names for a lot of the things. like instead of zero-or-one you can use optional or opt

17:47 TEttinger: ah ok

17:47 arrdem: cfleming: heh nice one

17:48 scottj: TEttinger: or one-or-more can be 1+

17:48 sveri: cfleming: sandbags I heard one of the kotlin developers talk last year about it. He said that more and more teams are switching to kotlin at JB. Most interesting fact for me was that the teams are free to choose their language they want to code in

17:49 sandbags: looks like YAOOPL

17:49 cfleming: sveri: Really? I'm surprised - basically all their code is in Java, except for the Scala and Kotlin plugins, which have a fair amount of their respective langs.

17:49 sveri: And a lot of groovy in builds and tests

17:50 sveri: cfleming: He was coding in C# before he started working on kotlin, thats what he said

17:50 I guess there are a lot of teams doing different things beside Intellij

17:51 cfleming: sveri: Interesting - he was probably working on resharper, I guess, and I think they have some .NET profiling tools too

17:51 sveri: cfleming: Yea, could be, that sounds reasonable

17:52 * sandbags looks at some Kotlin source, looks away, does not look back

17:52 cfleming: But yeah, they have a ton of products now.

17:52 sandbags: so complicated

17:52 sveri: sandbags: the java interop was pretty hard to understand the last time I looked at it, maybe one year ago

17:52 cfleming: sandbags: It's not so bad actually, takes a bit of getting used to, like anything I guess

17:53 I'd use it for Android development, I think

17:53 At least until arrdem finally finishes OxCart

17:53 * cfleming ducks

17:53 sveri: :D

17:53 arrdem: cfleming: oxcart is dead. you may get oxlang evetually

17:54 sveri: cfleming: I tried that and gave up after some hours guessing how to integrate the java android api into kotlin code

17:54 cfleming: arrdem: I shall wait for it patiently.

17:54 arrdem: cfleming: just for that you're buying first at clj/w

17:54 cfleming: sveri: Oh, bummer. I'd say Java 8 but that's no good either.

17:54 arrdem: Ok, ok....

17:54 sveri: cfleming: does not work ion Android yet IIRC

17:54 I mean Java 8

17:55 cfleming: sveri: Right, it doesn't.

17:56 sandbags: anyone here used JavaFX ... i've been looking at fn-fx but i can't tell if JavaFX is actually a useful thing to build on

17:57 cfleming: sandbags: tbaldridge seems to love it, I've never used it myself

17:57 sandbags: assuming tbaldridge is actually going to continue to work on fn-fx anyway (much like React for JavaFX)

17:57 cfleming: sveri: https://github.com/orfjackal/retrolambda should work for most of the interesting Java 8 stuff, that's nice.

17:57 sandbags: my last Java GUI experience was Swing in about 2001 so i'm kind of at sea

17:57 cfleming: sandbags: seesaw?

17:58 sandbags: i did take a look at that but... it didn't grab m

17:58 e

17:59 it's not like i remember anything useful about swing at this point anyway

17:59 sveri: cfleming: sounds interesting...but I guess I cannot use this at work as you need JDK 8 to compile the code and all our build systems must run JDK 7

17:59 oddcully: mine was AWT... i have the 1.1 oreilly book to prove it

17:59 never finished it

18:00 cfleming: sveri: He recommends using JDK 8 for dev, but JDK 7 for builds/testing to make sure you catch any problems.

18:01 sveri: cfleming: "Use JDK 8 to compile your source code." that won't work for us I guess

18:03 sandbags: right, time for sleep ... thx again cfleming

18:04 Shayanjm: Ok now the opposite - "reverse haversine" implementation: https://gist.github.com/shayanjm/644d895c1fad80b49919

18:04 any criticism is more than welcome -- still haven't fully figured out how to write thing in a clojuric way I think

18:07 cfleming: Shayanjm: That looks fine to me

18:08 Shayanjm: One thing is that the official Clojure lib guidelines recommend not destructuring in your arglists - I actually quite like that though, since it appears in doc popups and so on, and documents the shape of the map you're expecting.

18:09 Shayanjm: cfleming: that was my reasoning for doing the destructuring

18:09 cfleming: Shayanjm: I think it's ok, I wouldn't worry about it

18:09 Shayanjm: Sweet thanks for the input :)

18:10 oddcully: and R should be some const (maybe for gist sake here dome otherwise)

18:10 s/dome/done/

18:11 Shayanjm: good point cfleming

18:12 cfleming: Shayanjm: All credit for that goes to oddcully :)

18:12 Shayanjm: oops, oddcully *** tabbed the wrong name

18:17 oddcully: is there a way to import java stuff :as ? Like with all that Math/ stuff going on there to alias that to m/ ?

18:18 Shayanjm: oddcully: Yeah honestly I definitely should've done that

18:18 I'll probably refactor with that in there once I finish testing @ scale

18:18 it'll be part of the whole "tear down the duct tape" process prior to open sourcing

18:19 cfleming: oddcully Shayanjm: No, you can't do that - you need the class/method syntax

18:19 Shayanjm: cfleming: use as m wouldn't work?

18:20 cfleming: oddcully Shayanjm: The best you could do is wrap them in a function.

18:20 Shayanjm: orly

18:20 cfleming: Shayanjm: No, Math is a class, so you import it, not use it

18:20 Shayanjm: Ahh right

18:20 oddcully: ok, was just wondering, because searches/grimoire did not show anything

18:20 TEttinger: $google java 7 Math

18:20 lazybot: [Math (Java Platform SE 7 ) - Oracle Documentation] http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/lang/Math.html

18:21 cfleming: Actually, Math you don't have to import because it's in java.lang, but if it were in another package you'd have to import it, and import has nothing like :as

18:21 oddcully: i only wanted to alias it ;)

18:21 TEttinger: ,(def M Math)

18:21 curious

18:21 clojurebot: #'sandbox/M

18:21 oddcully: ok, is found nothing, because it does not exist

18:22 TEttinger: ,(M/sqrt 4)

18:22 clojurebot: #error{:cause "No such namespace: M", :via [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException, :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: No such namespace: M, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)", :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6535]} {:type java.lang.RuntimeException, :message "No such namespace: M", :at [clojure.lang.Util runtimeException "Util.java" 221]}], :trace [[clojure.lang.Util ru...

18:22 TEttinger: ,(.sqrt M 4)

18:22 clojurebot: #error{:cause "No matching method found: sqrt for class java.lang.Class", :via [{:type java.lang.IllegalArgumentException, :message "No matching method found: sqrt for class java.lang.Class", :at [clojure.lang.Reflector invokeMatchingMethod "Reflector.java" 53]}], :trace [[clojure.lang.Reflector invokeMatchingMethod "Reflector.java" 53] [clojure.lang.Reflector invokeInstanceMethod "Reflector.java"...

18:22 oddcully: TEttinger: this means no, right?

18:22 TEttinger: hm

18:23 oddcully: thanks anyway, bbl

18:23 (inc cfleming)

18:23 lazybot: ⇒ 15

18:23 oddcully: (inc TEttinger)

18:23 lazybot: ⇒ 49

18:23 TEttinger: thx

18:24 cfleming: Ahh, sweet karma

18:24 TEttinger: ,(def M #'Math)

18:24 clojurebot: #error{:cause "Expecting var, but Math is mapped to class java.lang.Math", :via [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException, :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Expecting var, but Math is mapped to class java.lang.Math, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)", :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyzeSeq "Compiler.java" 6732]} {:type java.lang.RuntimeException, :message "Expecting var, but Math is mapped t...

18:24 TEttinger: ,(def M Math)

18:24 clojurebot: #'sandbox/M

18:24 TEttinger: ,(.sqrt #'M 4)

18:24 clojurebot: #error{:cause "No matching method found: sqrt for class clojure.lang.Var", :via [{:type java.lang.IllegalArgumentException, :message "No matching method found: sqrt for class clojure.lang.Var", :at [clojure.lang.Reflector invokeMatchingMethod "Reflector.java" 53]}], :trace [[clojure.lang.Reflector invokeMatchingMethod "Reflector.java" 53] [clojure.lang.Reflector invokeInstanceMethod "Reflector.jav...

18:25 TEttinger: dog-at-keyboard.jpeg

18:25 cfleming: TEttinger: Can't do it, sorry

18:26 I'd actually like to be able to do that, especially when you want to import two classes with the same name

18:39 arrdem: I guess I'd refactor that to use unit tagged values and define my own sin/cos/tan etc, but this is left as an exercise for another barber

18:39 as-is it's fine tho

18:40 Shayanjm: thanks yo

18:58 ticking_: dnolen: hey, this looks liek abug in core.match, should I fill an issue? (match [[1 2 3]] [([h & r] :as a)] a) -> [1]

19:04 additionally, does it grant its own issue, or should I just add it as a comment on http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/MATCH-93 ?

19:06 dnolen: ticking_: just add it to the ticket as additional case via comment, I believe sritchie may have found a similar issue w/ :as.

19:07 ticking_: dnolen: k, I'll do :)

19:07 dnolen: ticking_: no idea when I'll have time to look at though, so patch very welcome.

19:07 ticking_: dnolen: I'll look into it :)

19:07 dnolen: I've maxed out on Clojure OSS contribution

19:07 ticking_: dnolen: yeah, I was already wondering how you handled all that TBH

19:09 dnolen: so thanks for all the good work :)

19:44 TEttinger: cfleming: I'm pretty proud of my first real macro

19:44 clojurebot: Excuse me?

19:44 TEttinger: also my first nested macro

19:45 ,(defmacro import-alias [new-name imported] `(defmacro ~new-name [f# & body#] `(. ~'~imported ~f# ~@body#)))

19:45 clojurebot: #'sandbox/import-alias

19:45 TEttinger: ,(import-alias mmm Math)

19:45 clojurebot: #'sandbox/mmm

19:45 TEttinger: ,(mmm sqrt 4.0)

19:45 clojurebot: 2.0

19:45 TEttinger: it doesn't use a / of course

19:46 (inc amalloy) ; for writing an excellent blog post on macros-in-macros

19:46 lazybot: ⇒ 257

19:46 justin_smith: ,(mmm PI) ; delicious

19:46 clojurebot: 3.141592653589793

21:02 Shayanjm: 6 hours and 8.4k requests later, my algo works and I now have a pretty comprehensive list of every restaurant in Austin TX ranked by popularity/foot-traffic :)

21:06 justin_smith: nice!

21:06 Shayanjm: is this just a data crunching thing, or do you have a frontend too?

21:07 Shayanjm: justin_smith: purely data crunching thing right now

21:07 would be really cool to have a UI

21:07 but I'd love to show off the implementation before it's super polished, since really it's a showcase of efficient hexagonal circle packing

21:07 justin_smith: Shayanjm: maybe incanter?

21:07 Shayanjm: justin_smith: Yeah I could do that - but at the scales i'm dealing with, just plotting is a HUGE issue

21:07 justin_smith: oh, nice, screenshot?

21:07 Shayanjm: sec i've got a few laying around

21:08 justin_smith: http://puu.sh/gQUd9/3e76116348.png

21:09 example at a reasonable scale

21:09 i think the dimensions on that was something like 3km radius bounding 50m radius circles

21:09 justin_smith: looks like something that some opengl might help with - maybe cljs with 3.js or webgl?

21:10 Shayanjm: Yeah, tons of really cool stuff. Ideally i'd like to overlay on a map

21:10 probably like a v2 thing tho

21:10 what's really cool is that it can generate packings at even incredibly unreasonable scales

21:10 http://puu.sh/gTuqz/dcd5406b74.png (in progress HUGE circle packing)

21:10 something like 750k 5km circles being packed into a circle with radius 5M KM

21:11 justin_smith: so all these circles are identical in size, right?

21:11 Shayanjm: which, for reference, is bigger than the surface area of most planets in our solar system

21:11 yeah

21:11 one of the requirements for the implementation

21:11 identical in size, no overlap

21:11 this is specifically for API optimization

21:11 justin_smith: I bet there is some really good math for optimal packing of unit circles

21:11 Shayanjm: you want the minimum # of requests to some geo-bound API while still maximizing coverage

21:11 justin_smith: yeah, circle packing is a still unsolved problem

21:11 justin_smith: ahh

21:12 Shayanjm: hexagonal packing is considered the most trivially optimal solution

21:12 justin_smith: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/CirclePacking.html

21:12 Shayanjm: but is by no means 'the' solution (as you can tell by the gaps)

21:12 justin_smith: yeah, that looks like what wolfram is saying too

21:12 Shayanjm: yeah, something like .906 average coverage

21:12 unfortunately to get other packing configurations you pretty much have to brute force it

21:12 justin_smith: I didn't realize it was still an open thing, that's cool

21:12 Shayanjm: but for hexagonal packings specifically, I think I came up with a pretty clever implementation which is pretty fast

21:13 30 seconds to generate 750k lat/long pairs on a macbook pro

21:13 (to cover that bigger-than-a-planet area)

21:13 so generating the points isn't even the bottleneck anymore - it's doing stuff with that data that takes forever.

21:14 i'll be opening the project really soon so I would love any criticism at all

21:14 justin_smith: yeah, and then you have some questions to answer before you can get a fast solution - what kind of lookup should be optimized, neighbors vs. absolute position...

21:14 Shayanjm: Yeah exactly, there were a few ideas that I was throwing around

21:14 with hexagonal packing the neighbors 'dumb way' is just generating 6 surrounding circle for each circle you generate

21:15 which, obviously, would get hella computationally intensive as you have a bigger and bigger bounding area

21:15 justin_smith: eg. quad trees are amazing for fast lookup, but are kind of sad for traversing neighbors

21:15 Shayanjm: Yeah. the iterative solution was very very complicated

21:15 and required tons of dynamic shit which just wasn't worth it

21:15 justin_smith: right

21:15 Shayanjm: so the implementation I settled with is fairly simple

21:16 the gist is that you can split that hexagonal packing into 6 triangles

21:16 if you figure out how to generate a triangle, you can just rotate those points 6 times

21:16 which seems fairly obvious, but interestingly enough the triangle you have to generate resembles pascal's triangle

21:17 each 'new number' in pascal's triangle (i.e: 1 _2_ 1) is a new distance from the center point that you have to manage if you were to generate the solution iteratively

21:17 so as you generate more and more layers, you have to keep track of more and more distances from the center point, therefore you have an indefinite number of vars you have to keep track of iteratively

21:17 justin_smith: oh, of course

21:17 Shayanjm: instead, you can just generate the next-layer neighbors for each circle

21:18 and take the set of those returned points

21:18 because each distance to the next circle is only ever going to be 2 * circle's radius

21:18 justin_smith: Shayanjm: my hunch is that this sort of graph is not good for the standard graph algorithm optimizations (because it is so densely connected and uniform)

21:18 Shayanjm: and the bearing from each circle will only ever be 0 degrees or 60 degrees (each circle in the triangle has exactly 2 'next layer neighbors')

21:18 yeah probably justin_smith

21:19 i'm still trying to figure out if this is even a 'good' implementation

21:19 it seems so, because the packing points are generated pretty damn fast

21:19 and it mitigates the bottleneck to API rate limits

21:19 in any case, i think it's a pretty cool project and hopefully someone can use it if they ever want to canvas huge areas using circle packing

21:20 the lat/long coordinate generation is pretty accurate too - in line with the assumptions that most popular GIS APIs use (i.e: google maps)

21:21 justin_smith: Shayanjm: depending on what you are trying to do with the data, isn't there a variant / alternative to packing where instead of ensuring no overlaps, you ensure no uncovered area and minimize total count given that constraint?

21:21 Shayanjm: I ask this not really fully comprehending what you are doing

21:22 Shayanjm: justin_smith: yeah, that's theoretically "the seed of life"

21:22 I think

21:22 the packing would end up looking something like this: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSaSaPEOU1riyviI1pSqLqPlC6Ed6wK50jjXW01jftN7ngvz7nfF1GNrA

21:22 justin_smith: oh, interesting

21:22 Shayanjm: justin_smith: the usecase is this: imagine you wanted to get data on every business in your city. Or even bigger - every business in your state

21:23 justin_smith: Shayanjm: isn't that cetner circle redundant there?

21:23 Shayanjm: unfortunately if you just ask google: "Get me every business in 5km from my point" it'd only return at most like 20 results, because it limits the return despite having a huge upper bounding radius

21:23 justin_smith: ahh, OK

21:24 Shayanjm: justin_smith: Nah that's why it's called the "seed of life". It's a pattern that occurs naturally where you have a single entity, put 6 points around it separated by 60 degrees each

21:24 and draw circles with centers at those points

21:24 and it overlaps 100%

21:24 if you removed the center circle, you'd end up with my pattern

21:24 justin_smith: and if you shrink all the circles, you get a standard hex packing, right?

21:24 Shayanjm: Yup

21:24 justin_smith: cool

21:25 Shayanjm: even more interesting: if you make each circle so small it becomes a point

21:25 you can get the trivially-optimal electron coverage for a sphere

21:25 of some given radius

21:25 justin_smith: Shayanjm: I just got a job doing some graph / big data stuff, so I'm finding it useful to exercise some semi-related brain muscles

21:25 Shayanjm: Yeah, I work in financial tech so I love working on projects like this

21:25 before Fintech, I was in Health IT doing predictive modeling for patient outcomes

21:26 so weird off-the-wall data projects are my bread and butter

21:26 justin_smith: cool - I love this kind of stuff because what "normal people" find "intuitive" is so much less a factor

21:26 haha

21:27 Shayanjm: hahahaha yup

21:27 @ day job I have to write pretty dumb code so everyone else can quickly understand & get up to speed

21:27 justin_smith: "we know that's how it really works, but we don't understand it, so can you present us with something totally inaccurate that we understand?"

21:27 Shayanjm: on these types of projects, I can sit and think about a problem for 3 hours and implement like 2 (dense, but clever) lines

21:27 lolol yup precisely

21:27 justin_smith: "oh, and we are going to complain if it's ever wrong, even though we asked for a thing that is wrong"

21:27 Shayanjm: hahahahaha exact same tension w/ me @ work

21:28 I tend to want to optimize for the general solution that will _always_ work

21:28 it describes the problem accurately, and delivers a solution in a format that is true to the problem domain

21:28 but then I end up having to rewrite it in a dumb breakable way because no one can quickly read it and fully grok it

21:29 justin_smith: I'll be writing a blog post outlining what I did in this project, but I think I'm going to take it in a different direction

21:30 instead of going over the technicalities of the project, I think I'm going to write something along the lines of: "How to take an idea from Point A to Point B when the bottleneck is a lack of domain knowledge"

21:30 and using this specific project as an example/springboard

22:24 fellipebrito: Do you guys use cljs for something? If yes, how do you guys test it? I've found clojure pretty good at tests, but cljs makes me a little confuse.

22:25 LaVidaPortland: I'm just starting to learn clojure, so I haven't done anything with cljs yet. Sorry!

23:43 Bruce_Wayne: anyone know the best library when dealing with passing params in a url?

23:43 justin_smith: Bruce_Wayne: use ring wrap-params

23:44 Bruce_Wayne: having trouble with params that have a &

23:44 won’t pass in the url

23:44 justin_smith: can you give an example?

23:44 Bruce_Wayne: Wagner & Sons

23:44 XorSwap: Batman?

23:44 Bruce_Wayne: a string such as that is a paramater I need to pass in the url

23:44 justin_smith: yeah, that's not a valid syntax in a URL param, you need to escape it

23:44 Bruce_Wayne: but it won’t accept the & symbol

23:45 justin_smith: that's a limitation of how URL parameters work

23:45 Bruce_Wayne: justin_smith: exactly, so how can I escape it?

23:45 arrdem: justin_smith: cemerick and some other people have lighter weight url parsing and forging libraries

23:45 justin_smith: oh, for generating such a thing? there's a library that does URL encoding, sorry

23:45 Bruce_Wayne: yep!

23:45 what’s the library?

23:46 justin_smith: arrdem: lighter weight than wrap-params?

23:46 * arrdem digs in his notes

23:46 justin_smith: Bruce_Wayne: checking

23:46 Bruce_Wayne: thank you!

23:46 arrdem: justin_smith: isn't that part of ring's routing infra?

23:46 justin_smith: it's a middleware, I thought he was serving requests

23:46 arrdem: justin_smith: when doing the lib-grim url crap I found a few things that were _just_ url parsing/generating

23:46 maybe he is

23:46 Bruce_Wayne: the hell are you doing so we can arm you accordingly

23:47 don't want to give you bad advice now do we :P

23:47 Bruce_Wayne: I am passing params through a url, then populating a form with those params on the other end

23:47 so I need to take the param

23:47 encode it for the url

23:48 then decode it back to the original to prepopulate the form

23:48 justin_smith: Bruce_Wayne: with jvm 1.7+ use (URLencoder/encode str "UTF-8")

23:48 for 1.6 I'm not sure

23:48 Bruce_Wayne: ok, and how can I decode the params on the other end?

23:49 justin_smith: wrap-params does it if you have a ring server on the other end

23:49 arrdem: justin_smith: aw come on man [cemerick/url "RELEASE"]

23:49 justin_smith: arrdem: it's a single static method, you don't need a lib for that

23:49 arrdem: justin_smith: the lib is literally defn wrappers around that single static method lol

23:50 justin_smith: anotehr static method to decode (URLDecoder/decode str "UTF-8")

23:50 Bruce_Wayne: as long as you can use 1.7, use those two, I'd say

23:51 Bruce_Wayne: justin_smith: Thank you

23:52 * arrdem pretends JVM ffi doesn't exist, uses defn wrappers everwhere

23:52 justin_smith: haha

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