#clojure log - May 11 2012

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0:02 Null-A: gnight

0:03 _sz: is there a way to rename/alias java classes? (for the purpose of accessing static members in a less verbose fashion)

0:03 the closest thing i've found is http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2852133/clojure-vars-and-java-static-methods

0:04 which solves everything (fields, methods) but inner classes

0:05 unfortunately, i'm trying to use this package (javacv) which uses a ton of those...

0:05 ivan: _sz: (import ... :as x)?

0:06 _sz: does that actually work with import?

0:06 ivan: er, I should shut up :)

0:06 gfredericks: no it doesn't

0:07 _sz: you got my hopes up there for a sec :)

0:12 so i understand it's just not possible at this point?

0:12 kenneth: hey so the repeat function, can i use it to repeat steps of an algorithm

0:13 right now it's returning a collection with the same value n times, but i'd like each to execute the function once

0:13 brehaut: repeatedly

0:14 kenneth: (doc repeatedly)

0:14 brehaut: but its still probably not what you want

0:14 clojurebot: "([f] [n f]); Takes a function of no args, presumably with side effects, and returns an infinite (or length n if supplied) lazy sequence of calls to it"

0:15 PeregrinePDX: (doc iterate)

0:15 clojurebot: "([f x]); Returns a lazy sequence of x, (f x), (f (f x)) etc. f must be free of side-effects"

0:15 kenneth: right, i want that, but minus the fact that it's passing the return value to the next step

0:16 metellus: maybe dorun

0:16 mefesto: kenneth: isn't repeatedly the function you want?

0:17 metellus: he wants the seq to be realized

0:17 mefesto: ,(take 5 (repeatedly rand))

0:17 clojurebot: (0.4176372286247386 0.20749523847155404 0.6640069389829846 0.8634799445247344 0.7359045500862336)

0:17 brehaut: if you want to maintain pure functional logic, you have to pass some value in form theprevious itteation into the current iteration, otherwise there wont be any state maintained

0:17 amalloy: &(repeatedly 5 rand) ;; mefesto

0:17 lazybot: ⇒ (0.0868441376220952 0.055044885306857694 0.8384131280779435 0.7513873477507058 0.6478443025930312)

0:18 kenneth: i'm using clojurescript, is repeatedly not available in cljs?

0:18 dnolen`: kenneth: it is

0:18 kenneth: oh nvm

0:18 i think i got it

0:21 PeregrinePDX: kenneth as brehaut constantly repeats to me. If you find a function that almost does what you want. Like repeat try (apropos 'repeat)

0:21 brehaut: it takes regexen too

0:21 PeregrinePDX: It'll find all the functions that contain repeat in the name. You often find some variant that does what you want.

0:22 kenneth: ooh neat trick

0:23 Cr8: hmm

0:23 trying to do a getline method over a java.nio.ByteBufer

0:23 it.. works, but advances the position in the source buffer by two lines instead of one somehow

0:24 PeregrinePDX: Yeah, he's told me apropos this or that at least 5 or 6 times over the last few days when I complain to him that something almost works but not quite.

0:24 Eventually I m ight learn.

0:24 Cr8: https://www.refheap.com/paste/2685

0:24 brehaut: lol

0:25 Cr8: possibly just advancing twice as much as it should, the lines are the same length

0:29 ah, misread the docs :)

0:33 dnolen`: http://github.com/swannodette/mori

0:35 ivan: nice name

0:36 brehaut: dnolen`: holy crap

0:37 dnolen`: brehaut: just getting started, I want to make this super easy for JS devs.

0:37 brehaut: dnolen`: i suspect you might just have changed my life

0:37 having real collections in JS is something i have wanted for years

0:37 real _and persistent_ collections is even better

0:39 dnolen`: brehaut: yes! open to any and all suggestions (forEach, each, etc.)

0:41 * brehaut clones

0:42 dnolen`: awesome

0:43 brehaut: this might give me a way to work on clj(s) for work stuff

0:43 dnolen`: brehaut: will be more useful for most JS devs once the reduce frameworks lands in CLJS

0:43 brehaut: ah true

0:43 dnolen`: brehaut: having to interact with lazy seqs for JS devs will probably be an non-starter.

0:44 brehaut: meh :)

0:44 dnolen`: brehaut: ha, I certainly have no problem w/ lazy seqs but people will be confused :)

0:44 brehaut: dnolen`: a lot of the work i do, nobody else touches my code

0:45 and ive written my own half arsed lazy seqs in the past

0:45 dnolen`: brehaut: heh, yes it will be useful for folks wanting this kind of thing right away.

0:45 brehaut: just that for more general usage people will want strict behavior.

0:45 brehaut: dnolen`: does the default build not run through closure?

0:45 yeah i agree

0:45 dnolen`: brehaut: it does

0:46 brehaut: oh, just not a minifier

0:46 dnolen`: brehaut: it does get minified.

0:46 brehaut: hmm. maybe something is funny with my env, as it certainly isnt here

0:47 dnolen`: brehaut: what do you mean? like you doesn't see an obfuscated file?

0:47 spjt: clojurescript will give you job security, because nobody else will ever be able to figure out your code

0:47 dnolen`: brehaut: obfuscated but pretty-printed

0:47 brehaut: dnolen`: yeah, nicely laid out

0:47 dnolen`: brehaut: yes, I need to bug emezeske about that.

0:47 brehaut: that's the correct output.

0:48 brehaut: i certainly couldnt make head or tail of the code, but its got a lot of whitespace :)

0:48 dnolen`: brehaut: haha no need to make heads or tails of the code :)

0:48 brehaut: no :)

0:48 im just wondering how small it can get

0:48 dnolen`: brehaut: 21k gzipped right now :)

0:49 brehaut: cheers :)

0:51 dnolen`: emezeske: ping

0:53 emezeske: dnolen`: hey!

0:53 dnolen`: emezeske: I noticed that compiled files always pretty print

0:53 emezeske: which is a code size hit

0:54 emezeske: dnolen`: oh? that's weird.

0:54 dnolen`: did anything about the :whitespace option handling change?

0:54 dnolen`: emezeske: not that I'm aware of.

0:54 emezeske: cljs test output is not pretty printed.

0:55 emezeske: seems like this might be getting set accidentally in lein-cljsbuild?

0:55 emezeske: dnolen`: cljsbuild sets some default values for the :compiler map

0:55 dnolen`: including :pretty-print true

0:55 dnolen`: I wonder if it should do that; probably not

0:56 dnolen`: emezeske: yeah I see that it's set to true

0:57 emezeske: dnolen`: I opened an issue: https://github.com/emezeske/lein-cljsbuild/issues/89

0:57 dnolen`: I gotta run for now

0:57 dnolen`: emezeske: np, thx

0:58 brehaut: dnolen`: seems like persistent data structures would be ideal for farming off work to web workers

0:58 dnolen`: brehaut: sadly copying overhead destroys any benefits there I think.

0:58 brehaut: they still copy? i thought newer imps just froze?

0:58 apparently i need to go do some reading

0:59 dnolen`: brehaut: would be awesome if that were true.

0:59 brehaut: if im just fabricating things in my head, it would be less awesome

0:59 dnolen`: brehaut: once problem is that engines like V8 convert to maps on freeze

0:59 one problem

0:59 which sucks

0:59 brehaut: yeah greatly

1:00 JS is still the land of one hand giving, and the other taking away

1:00 dnolen`: brehaut: but yes, if there's ever a sensible fork/join like abstraction for JS, massive win.

1:03 brehaut: k, even from playing around just a tiny bit - being able to use CLJS api from JS just rules.

1:03 mori.into_array(mori.interpose("foo", mori.vector(1, 2, 3, 4)))

1:03 brehaut: thats awesome

1:04 dnolen`: brehaut: another JS plan I have in the works - Datalog for JS via core.logic

1:04 if the datomic team doesn't beat me to it of course.

1:04 brehaut: haha

1:04 that'd be mind boggling

1:04 dnolen`: brehaut: I've been thinking about the new reduce framework and storing tuples as JS arrays

1:05 would be very efficient I think.

1:05 brehaut: i imagine so

1:05 they are pretty well optimized if they arent growing

1:16 dnolen`: mori.first(mori.nth(mori.take(2, (mori.interpose("foo", mori.vector(1, 2, 3, 4)))), 1)) // => "f"

1:16 gotta love the fact that the API handles JS natives.

1:20 brehaut: dnolen`: is map missing?

1:21 dnolen`: brehaut: should be there.

1:22 brehaut: oops no

1:22 brehaut: mori.into_array(mori.filter(function (x) { return x % 2 == 0;}, mori.vector(1,2,3,4)))

1:22 fantastic

1:24 dnolen`: brehaut: added map to master

1:24 brehaut: function fac (n) { return mori.reduce(star, mori.range(1, 5)); }

1:24 also awesome

1:27 dnolen`: brehaut: http://github.com/swannodette/mori, added coffee example

1:27 brehaut: haha nice use of underscore :)

1:32 PeregrinePDX: Must not look at number 43

1:34 brehaut: _.get(_.hash_map(_.set([1,2,3]), "a"), _.set([1,2,3]))

1:34 that has totally made my day

1:36 dnolen`: brehaut: pull request welcome :)

1:36 clojurebot: Anyone can hack! http://images.wikia.com/pixar/images/0/0d/Http_alliedow-files-wordpress-com_2011-01_anyone-can-cook-445x355.png

1:36 dnolen`: brehaut: if you have improvements changes in mind.

1:36 brehaut: dnolen`: if i have anything to add i shall :)

1:36 dnolen`: brehaut: excellent.

2:47 ambrosebs: is (set? nil) => false, (coll? nil) => false, (seq? nil) => false in CLJS to keep compatibility with CLJ?

2:48 they have weird method bodies (defn set? [a] (when-not (nil? a) (satisfies? IPersistentSet a)))

2:48 even tho nil satisfies ISet

2:48 robertstuttaford: my function is returning a clojure.lang.Delay instead of the map i'm expecting. how do i get the function that calls this function to block until it gets the map instead of getting the Delay immediately?

2:50 amalloy: &(doc force)

2:50 lazybot: ⇒ "([x]); If x is a Delay, returns the (possibly cached) value of its expression, else returns x"

2:50 robertstuttaford: use the force!

2:50 thank you amalloy

2:50 amalloy: $findfn (delay 10) 10

2:50 lazybot: [clojure.core/deref clojure.core/force]

2:52 flijten: Hmm< I use a group by on a list, but a group by seems to return a map of vectors by default. Now my pop does exactly the opposite of what expected (return a collection without the last instead of without the first)

2:52 Is there anyway around that

2:53 robertstuttaford: hmm. even though i'm (force data) it's still getting a delay

2:54 the functions in question are doing IO - mysql and files-on-disk access

2:55 when i call them in repl they return the map. when i trigger the compojure routes in repl i get the Delay

3:08 johnfn: in clojure, is there a reason why mapping over a set or a vector gives a list back?

3:08 amalloy: it gives back a lazy sequence, which prints the same as a list in the repl

3:09 johnfn: right

3:09 so is the reason just laziness?

3:09 amalloy: wellllll

3:09 johnfn: and is there a better way to transform a set than (set (map […]

3:09 amalloy: if it weren't for laziness, it could give back a set or a vector or whatever

3:10 johnfn: yea

3:10 amalloy: but the fact that it gives back just "something seqable" is a nice design choice - you just have one interface for generally dealing with collections of things

3:11 so i can't say it's "just" because of laziness

3:11 johnfn: but aren't vectors and sets also seqable?

3:14 amalloy: yes. but because there's one interface for seqable-ness, map just takes in seqs, it doesn't know anything about vectors or sets or whatever

3:14 so all it can give out is a seq

3:15 johnfn: hmm. that makes sense.

3:15 amalloy: if you like, you can write map-preserving-type

3:15 johnfn: yea

3:15 amalloy: never mind, my suggested implementation sucks

3:17 robertstuttaford: a question about delays… https://gist.github.com/2658093

3:23 dmi3y: Hi. While playing with example-projects in lein-cljsbuild I failed to start the ring server with 'lein ring server-headless'. Lein says 'ring is not a task'. How do I start the ring server with lein?

3:23 robertstuttaford: got lein-ring in your project?

3:23 *shoots from the hip*

3:24 dmi3y: yep, there's a dev-dependency on ring 0.7.0

3:31 kral: morning

3:32 mmarczyk: reducers in ClojureScript: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-250

3:32 johnfn: alright; why does #{(gensym) (gensym)} give me a duplicate key error?

3:34 hiredman: johnfn: because when the reader constructs the set #{(gensym) (gensym)} (gensym) is the same as (gensym)

3:34 echo-area: TimMc: I seem to find another bug of Clojure... This time about at least `keep'. I'm trying to make a simplest case to reproduce it

3:35 johnfn: hiredman: huh. yeah, that makes sense.

3:36 echo-area: TimMc: I'm encountering StackOverflowException; but by accessing the second item of the collection passed to `keep', it won't be thrown

3:38 (inside the body of `keep')

3:39 hiredman: echo-area: it's not a bug, you've built up too many layers of lazy sequences, and realizing them all at once causes lots of method calls which blows the stack

3:40 echo-area: hiredman: How do you define "too many"?

3:42 The program in which I'm having this issue tries to open a list of HDFS files. If I replace these HDFS files with local files, the issue goes away

3:43 Nothing but the files, and the way to open the files, changes during that attempt to reduce program size but still keeping the issue.

3:44 And hence the layer of lazy sequence is not changed in this course

3:50 fliebel: Raynes: How far by train from NYC?

3:52 amalloy: fliebel: a thousand miles by car, about the same by train probably

3:52 robertstuttaford: what's the idiomatic way to provide configuration data to a ring-based .war app?

3:53 stuff like database creds and filesystem paths

3:55 fliebel: amalloy: crap, america is big...

3:55 amalloy: fliebel: for me, NYC is 2800 miles

3:56 fliebel: europeans think 100km if far, americans think 100 years is long ago.

3:56 amalloy: *chuckle*

4:07 robertstuttaford: anyone using cemerick's friend?

4:24 bobry: is there a format function for clojurescript?

4:30 (format "%s" "foo") works fine in clojure, but raises an undefined error in clojurescript

5:34 robertstuttaford: javascript online/offline detection is a bag of pain :-(

5:58 ambrosebs: is there a type for protocols?

5:58 just seems like a normal map to me

6:04 Madsy: exit

6:38 Borkdude: seems like light table is going to make it :) http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/306316578/light-table

6:54 robertstuttaford: that's awesome. chris writes great stuff, it'll be interesting to see what he comes up with

7:54 bobry: Is it possible to use enlive's 'deftemplate' with clojurescript?

8:01 solussd_: is it possible to pass a symbol into a macro to be used as the symbol to be bound in a let? i.e. so an anaphoric macro can have the user name the anaphor?

8:04 jwr7: How can I check if (seq s) will succee?

8:04 s/succee/succeed/

8:05 Or, more precisely — how can I check if something is a nonempty string?

8:07 kmicu: jwr7: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.string/blank_q

8:08 jwr7: kmicu: that fails when passed a number. I'll stick with (and (string? s) (seq s)) for now, I think...

8:09 vijaykiran: , (> (.length (str 9)) 0)

8:09 clojurebot: true

8:09 stuartsierra: solussd: yes

8:10 when-let, if-let work that way

8:21 solussd_: stuartsierra: I meant to say, "the symbol to be bound to", e.g., a macro with args of, say, [a b] and call it like this: (mymacro (+ 1 2) x), and have my macro expand to (let x (+ 1 2)) …. etc

8:22 stuartsierra: right now I just do a postwalk and replace the anaphor in the passed in expression

8:22 stuartsierra: solussd: sure

8:22 solussd_: can't seem to get the quoting right..

8:23 stuartsierra: (defmacro mylet [sym expr & body] `(let [~sym ~expr] ~@body))

8:24 solussd_: erm.. ok. i feel dumb.

8:24 thanks

8:24 stuartsierra: no problem

8:25 solussd_: I was mentally starting from the '~captureme form. :)

8:27 stuartsierra: solussd_: Right, you're not doing symbol capture in this case.

8:28 solussd_: yup. no amount of elaborating on '~ would have saved me. missed the simple case.

8:30 robertstuttaford: why does CCW sometimes use clojure 1.2.1 for the repl instead of 1.3.0? bloody annoying

8:37 mmarczyk: letfn support for ClojureScript -- http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-251

8:38 bug reports etc. would be much appreciated

8:43 dnolen: mmarczyk: ping

8:43 mmarczyk: dnolen: pong

8:43 dnolen: have you seen CLJS-251?

8:44 oh, you have :-D

8:45 pandeiro: anyone know how to include the clojure.tools.macro ns as a project dependency with lein

8:45 mmarczyk: dnolen: mori looks very cool :-)

8:45 dnolen: mmarczyk: yes :) will be cooler with the reducer framework.

8:46 mmarczyk: dnolen: oh yeah :-)

8:46 dnolen: I was going to send you a pull req for list* but decided I'm not sure what to do with * :-P

8:46 stuartsierra: pandeiro: http://search.maven.org/#search%7Cga%7C1%7Cclojure%20tools%20macro

8:46 bobry: how can i apply a function to each key of the map and build a new map out of that? it looks like 'core/map' only returns lists :(

8:47 dnolen: mmarczyk: yeah, when exporting I change the name.

8:47 stuartsierra: bobry: reduce over the map or use (into {} ..>)

8:48 dnolen: mmarczyk: so the reducer stuff is working with the core data structures?

8:48 mmarczyk: dnolen: it should

8:49 bobry: stuartsierra: thanks! i thought there's a generic function for that, something like Haskell's 'fmap'

8:49 mmarczyk: dnolen: as in Clojure

8:49 dnolen: I'll put together a test suite this weekend -- with the stuff in the (comment ...) in reduce.clj as the starting point

8:50 dnolen: no better way to find bugs than trying to use it, of course

8:50 dnolen: mmarczyk: did the comment stuff work?

8:50 mmarczyk: dnolen: yes

8:50 dnolen: mmarczyk: cool

8:51 flijten: Anyone willing to comment on my quicksort implementation in clojure? Specifically since it seems written with a non-functional programming mindset still. It's my first attempt at clojure: http://pastebin.com/jbGFCDAa

8:51 mmarczyk: dnolen: the part that's meant to work, that is -- there is one expression which fails in Clojure, IIRC

8:51 stuartsierra: Hey ClojureScript dudes!

8:51 Try out this G.Closure third-party JAR:

8:51 https://oss.sonatype.org/content/repositories/orgclojure-308/org/clojure/google-closure-library-third-party/0.0-790/

8:52 Let me know if it works, and I'll release it to Maven Central Repos.

8:53 TimMc: bobry: (zipmap (map f (keys m)) (vals m)) perhaps

8:54 keys and vals are guaranteed to provide the same ordering given an identical? object.

8:56 bobry: TimMc: looks good, thanks!

8:56 pandeiro: stuartsierra: thanks

9:05 mmarczyk: stuartsierra: that jar appears to be empty except for some metadata?

9:05 hm, wait, let me double check

9:06 oh no it isn't, sorry

9:06 stuartsierra: ^

9:06 no idea what happened to my download then... anyway, checking now

9:08 timvisher: hey all

9:08 mdeboard: hi

9:08 stuartsierra: mmarczyk: ok, let me know

9:09 timvisher: am i wrong in thinking that `into` is lazy?

9:09 i want to have an infinite sequence with the first element being ungenerated

9:10 mmarczyk: stuartsierra: the test suite passes

9:10 timvisher: so i was mapping over an infinite generator and i tried throwing an into in front of it and i got an OOM error

9:10 mmarczyk: timvisher: it's not lazy

9:10 timvisher: actually uses reduce -- and transients if possible

9:10 timvisher: mmarczyk: sweet

9:10 so how would i put something fixed in front an infinite sequence?

9:11 mmarczyk: timvisher: cons ?

9:11 timvisher: concat, lazy-cat

9:12 timvisher: ah yes

9:12 i suppose i should remember those from my own post

9:12 stuartsierra: mmarczyk: thanks

9:12 timvisher: it's been so long since i had to care :)

9:12 mmarczyk: stuartsierra: np; some other code also works fine; haven't checked browser-repl though

9:13 timvisher: by the by, something changed about my emacs set up recently and i no longer get the helpful little hints in the mini-buffer about the function i'm typing out

9:13 what mode is that?

9:13 robertstuttaford: stuartsierra: for a newbie, what does that jar do?

9:13 dnolen: mmarczyk: reducers stuff in and works http://github.com/swannodette/mori

9:13 stuartsierra: robertstuttaford: It's a package of the third-party extensions to the Google Closure Library. It includes stuff like goog.dom.query, a CSS selector ported from Dojo.

9:14 mmarczyk: dnolen: :-D

9:14 dnolen: stuartsierra: I'm assuming you all want to stick with the older GClosure for your projects?

9:14 robertstuttaford: ah ok. i noticed the gclosure included in cljs was smaller than the gclosure i'm using from svn

9:14 so this brings the thirdparty stuff back to the party

9:14 stuartsierra: dnolen: I was actually looking for reports on whether the latest GClosure (compiler and/or library) works with ClojureScript.

9:15 robertstuttaford: Yes, we want to keep them separate because the licenses differ.

9:15 robertstuttaford: makes sense

9:15 duck1123: I've been using a more recent release, but I haven't tried the new patch yet

9:15 dnolen: stuartsierra: does as far as I know. bootstrap script has been updated.

9:15 robertstuttaford: is the library in cljs a direct export of google's? or is it a curated subset?

9:15 dnolen: stuartsierra: I noticed that HEAD does not work.

9:15 stuartsierra: robertstuttaford: direct export

9:15 dnolen: stuartsierra: I mean GClosure HEAD.

9:15 duck1123: I needed websocket support

9:16 robertstuttaford: ok cool

9:16 stuartsierra: i ask this of everyone who talks about cljs. have you had to generate externs for exported symbols in any of your cljs projects?

9:17 stuartsierra: dnolen: OK. Does the G.Closure library r1376 work?

9:17 robertstuttaford: i want to do the base-app + modules thing with cljs for both

9:17 dnolen: stuartsierra: is that the latest relese?

9:17 stuartsierra: yes

9:18 dnolen: stuartsierra: yes that works and is a part of CLJS 1211 release

9:18 robertstuttaford: my closure library is at rev 1843

9:18 dnolen: stuartsierra: meaning if you bootstrap that's what you get and what the tests run against.

9:19 stuartsierra: dnolen: OK, but the releases have a POM file that declares the dependency on G.Closure Lib r790.

9:19 We need to keep these things in sync.

9:19 dnolen: stuartsierra: oh gotcha, I'm still a total Maven noob.

9:20 stuartsierra: dnolen: Are we still dependent on G.Closure compiler r1592?

9:20 dpritchett: would it be preferable to use "(partial = x)" or "#(= x %)" ?

9:21 they appear to work about the same

9:21 mmarczyk: stuartsierra: for some reason the browser-repl seems not to work with gclosure lib from that jar

9:21 dnolen: mmarczyk: you can no longer use file:// protocol

9:21 mmarczyk: dnolen: ohhhh of course

9:21 dnolen: forgot about that

9:22 dnolen: thanks

9:22 dnolen: stuartsierra: I always tests via bootstrapping. so I've run the test & browser REPL with GClosure lib r1376 and compiler-latest

9:22 those work

9:22 stuartsierra: OK. Any idea what revision compiler-latest corresponds to?

9:24 r1918 it looks like

9:24 dnolen: stuartsierra: yep

9:24 mmarczyk: stuartsierra: dnolen: still doesn't work for me -- "goog is not defined"

9:24 dnolen: mmarczyk: it's been confirmed to work for a lot of people.

9:25 mmarczyk: dnolen: I mean with stuartsierra's jar

9:25 stuartsierra: mmarczyk: Just checking - you know that JAR does not REPLACE the g.closure library JAR. It adds to it.

9:26 mmarczyk: stuartsierra: hm, I think that's what I did, but -- who knows -- let me start over

9:26 stuartsierra: probably did sth stupid along the way.

9:34 timvisher: is there any way to get `lein ring server` to honor the checkouts directory?

9:34 i'm still on lein 1

9:38 dpritchett: dnolen is there anything in the standard lib that I could use to do simple branching logic? I don't really like nested ifs

9:39 I am playing with 4clojure and I assume core.match isn't an option

9:39 dnolen: dpritchett: cond, case, condp

9:39 dpritchett: do you need something more than that?

9:39 dpritchett: nah

9:39 i found case but it didn't seem right

9:39 i'll look up the others

9:40 dnolen: dpritchett: you probably want cond

9:40 rhc: speaking of those, i was looking for a simple way to say something like:

9:40 dpritchett: yes, cond is exactly what i wanted

9:40 rhc: give me the first item of this list that (f item) returns logical true for, or, give me elseitem if none return true

9:41 dpritchett: although even my cond solution will likely be wordier than necessary

9:41 rhc: best i could do is something like: (if-let [a (first (drop-while f items))] a elseitem)

9:41 dpritchett: trying to figure out how to deal with the fact that the last element of my accumulator could be either a single value or a collection itself http://www.4clojure.com/problem/31

9:41 so i'll just branch that out into conds as part of a reduction

9:43 ambrosebs: rhc: i'd use filter

9:44 rhc: ambrosebs: (first (filter f items)) ?

9:44 dnolen: rhc: (or (some pred coll) elseitem)

9:44 rhc: ahh dnolen, really nice

9:44 didn't even think of using 'or' in that way

9:44 ambrosebs: as long as no elements of ur collection are falsy that will work

9:45 rhc: 'some' returns falsey on no match i guess?

9:45 ambrosebs: thats correct

9:46 dnolen: rhc: some returns the matching thing.

9:46 rhc: if the matching thing is falsey, that snippet won't work.

9:46 (or (some nil? coll) :wat), for example

9:47 fliebel: dnolen: core.logic does not use seqs much, but rather something more like Scheme cons cells, right?

9:47 rhc: err wait, some returns the result of pred for the first non-falsey value of pred

9:47 dnolen: fliebel: internally yes.

9:48 rhc: except it will return the first nil, nil is falsey, so you'll get :wat.

9:48 which is not what you want.

9:49 fliebel: dnolen: I was thinking about your tweet about speedups by using reducers.

9:49 dnolen: fliebel: unification

9:49 ambrosebs: rhc: (if-let [rs (seq (filter pred coll))] (first rs) :default)

9:50 rhc: I think that's more correct that ur drop-while version

9:50 rhc: yeah i guess it doesn't get much better than that :)

9:50 fliebel: dnolen: I wonder if VisualVM gives you any insight about the seq overhead.

9:50 rhc: yeah not sure why i was using drop-while over filter

9:51 dnolen: fliebel: probably

9:51 ambrosebs: rhc: the problem with your example was you were testing on (first ...) instead of (seq ...)

9:51 fliebel: Hm, I might try that...

9:51 dnolen: fliebel: in core.logic if I recall the most costly thing now is unification.

9:52 fliebel: switching to PersistentHashMap maps eliminated the cost of walk.

9:52 rhc: ambrosebs: why would that be a problem? wouldn't (first '()) be falsey?

9:52 ambrosebs: (first '(nil))

9:53 * fliebel should stare at those 300 lines for a year.

9:53 dnolen: fliebel: join the club :)

9:53 rhc: drop-while creates a '(nil) collection when it drops the whole collection?

9:53 ambrosebs: fliebel: :)

9:53 rhc: fliebel: which 300? (curious)

9:54 dnolen: fliebel: the implementation of miniKanren in Scheme.

9:54 er, I mean rhc: ^

9:54 fliebel: rhc: MiniKanren, see the conj unconference for quote.

9:54 rhc: dnolen: ahh

9:54 ambrosebs: rhc: hmm I'm probably wrong, bit distracted atm :)

9:54 rhc: still need to watch that minikanren pres

9:55 ambrosebs: rhc: my point is test for emptyness with seq, not first

9:56 rhc: ambrosebs: hmm, ok, i need to read more about sequences i think

10:00 fliebel: *watching again* http://blip.tv/clojure/dan-friedman-and-william-byrd-minikanren-5936333

10:01 (quote around 4:50)

10:06 stuartsierra: OK, updated G.Closure Library JAR for revision 1376 at https://oss.sonatype.org/content/repositories/orgclojure-314/org/clojure/google-closure-library/0.0-1376/

10:24 dnolen: `fogus: heya, can't merge your pull request, I changed the readme :P

10:25 `fogus: Oh! I can submit another PR

10:25 dnolen: using ClojureScript from JavaScript rocks! :)

10:25 `fogus: thx

10:25 `fogus: np

10:30 dpritchett: so apparently my 250 char submission is equivalent to "partition-by identity"

10:31 `fogus: dnolen: I get a provide error on the latest "required "clojure.core.reducers" namespace never provided"

10:31 dnolen: `fogus: are you using checkouts?

10:32 `fogus: Mori has to be built with CLJS HEAD

10:33 * `fogus trying again

10:33 `fogus: whoops lein deps fail

10:33 Got it now

10:36 dnolen: gonna need a tutorial on all the goodies tailored for JS devs

10:39 `fogus: Agreed

10:39 jasonjckn: rhickey: wrt to interactive development for reducers, it'd be nice if evaling (r/map …) in the repl actually executed the collection recipe, i can file a jira issue for that (?)

10:39 pandeiro: dnolen: look forward to that for sure

10:41 rhickey: jasonjckn: no, not looking for more magic

10:41 pandeiro: the way that maven works, if i want to update the versions of certain deps in a jar, i must update the version of the jar in order to avoid overriding the original, correct?

10:41 jasonjckn2: disconnected

10:43 dnolen: could use some upvotes http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3959409

10:43 jasonjckn: done

10:44 dnolen: jasonjckn: thx

10:45 rhickey: dnolen: got the reducers in there fast!

10:45 nothing like portable Clojure code

10:46 `fogus: dnolen: Fresh PR headed your way

10:46 brainproxy: dnolen: I've figure out a way to have node-clojurescript to transparently use a "detached JVM", so you'll be able to do `ncljsc -S <port>`

10:47 stuartsierra: Summary of new G.Closure Library JARs:

10:47 https://groups.google.com/d/topic/clojure-dev/TiJGSmM1gTo/discussion

10:47 dnolen: rhickey: haha, yes - thanks to mmarczyk :)

10:47 brainproxy: and then when using ncljsc to run/compile scripts, or when using node require to load .cljs, you'll be able to spec a port number

10:47 dnolen: `fogus: merged

10:48 brainproxy: should dramaticaly improve the experience, i.e. compile times will feel pretty snappy so long as you've got the `ncljsc -S` process running in the background

10:48 `fogus: dnolen: Thanks!

10:53 jasonjckn: Does CollFold need to be moved into core.protocols namespace?

10:56 brainproxy: dnolen: mori looks cool, would you be interested in a pull request that would make the thing nodejs and ender friendly, or do you think that would best be served by a derivate project?

10:56 bartj: hello, anyone from a computer vision background here ?

10:56 mmarczyk: rhickey: dnolen: just attached a patch to CLJS-250 w/ latest flatten and mapcat; or should I make a new ticket?

10:57 fliebel: bartj: Not me, but I'm already curious to your question.

10:57 bartj: fliebel, pvt?

10:57 fliebel: bartj: pvt?

10:57 bartj: fliebel, er, private chat ?

10:58 fliebel: bartj: Well, if you want to, sure. But the chance that anyone has anything usefull to say is larger in channel, I'd say.

10:58 RickInGA: bartj: fliebel: I would like to eeavesdrop

11:00 bartj: fliebel, RickInGA channel is called bartj

11:14 cmcbride: dnolen: I get this error when I try to compile mori

11:14 https://www.refheap.com/paste/2688

11:15 dnolen: cmcbride: you need to compile with CLJS HEAD

11:15 cmcbride: I cloned the cljs repo in to the checkout folder

11:16 is there something more I have to do?

11:20 dnolen: wow reducers work is impressive

11:20 https://github.com/swannodette/mori

11:20 look at the reducer numbers

11:22 RickInGA: dnolen: reducer numbers?

11:22 the times?

11:26 askerOfDumbQuest: Guess I am not the only dumb one.. did they really schedule the atlanta code camp for the same weekend as georgia high school graduations?

11:33 fliebel: bartj: https://github.com/quil/quil

11:34 bartj: fliebel, thanks again!

11:35 gtrak: curious, what's with all the magic numbers in generated clojurescript? looking at mori.js specifically

11:37 TimMc: Hmm, this might be a viable approach for Java programmers needing to catch checked exceptions thrown by Clojure (if RTE-wrapping were removed): http://james-iry.blogspot.com/2010/08/on-removing-java-checked-exceptions-by.html

11:38 (The first part shows how to throw "surprise" checked exceptions in Java; the second part shows how to catch them.)

11:41 I mean, it *is* perverse -- but it works.

11:41 devn: lol, reducers in cljs already?

11:42 gtrak: TimMc: that's pretty awesome, the chucks thing

11:43 jasonjckn: amalloy_: currying iterate seems useless, albeit not harmless. However currying repeat would be harmful, because the core implementation has [n x] and [x] as oppose to [n x] and [n].

11:43 amalloy_: a consistently design would be to only allow currying for stuff that has coll as last param

11:44 not harmful*

11:53 halgari: gtrak: if you mean things like fn1254 = function()...then that's just auto generated ids. The compiler has a auto-incrementing counter so that when you need a temp variable you just call gensym and it creates a unique symbol for you.

11:56 gtrak: for an example, in function qb(a,b){ this.I = a; this.A = b; this.o = 0; this.g=15990906}

11:56 cmcbride: I just did some underscore vs mori benchmark

11:57 halgari: gtrak: in that case.... Idk

11:57 cmcbride: underscore is still much faster

11:57 is this because it is using native reduce?

11:59 time(function(){mori.reduce(sum, mori.filter(mori.is_even,(mori.range(100000))))})

11:59 264ms

12:00 time(function(){_.reduce(_.filter(_.range(100000),function(num){ return num % 2 == 0; }), sum, 0)})

12:00 12ms

12:00 _KY_: Enclojure project run error: "no main class found" -- what should I do?

12:00 jasonjckn: amalloy_: you there?

12:05 jsabeaudry: What is the proper way of supporting positioned head requests on files using noir?

12:07 technomancy: amalloy_: someone pointed me to a problem with ordered on openjdk 8 if you are interested

12:08 jsabeaudry: aka the "range" header?

12:09 _KY_: Enclojure project run error: "<no main class found>" -- what should I do?

12:11 cmcbride: I got mori down to 95ms by using reducers and using my own is_even function, not bad

12:12 technomancy: amalloy_: specifically on the lambda branch

12:14 mmarczyk: devn: reducers in CLJS = copy, paste, adjust protocol & protocol method names, comment out fork/join stuff :-)

12:20 jonaskoelker: ^^ TimMc: surprise checked exceptions---do the pop up from behind the couch when you turn on the light and go "surprise! Con-crash-tulations!"

12:30 mmarczyk: dnolen: ping

12:30 dnolen: mmarczyk: ping

12:30 oops pong

12:31 mmarczyk: :-)

12:31 dnolen: mmarczyk: what's up?

12:32 mmarczyk: dnolen: new reducers stuff @ cljs-250 -- sort of wondering about the process, i.e. reopen / new ticket for updates like this?

12:32 dnolen: more interestingly

12:33 dnolen: CLJS-247 -- protocol method test inlining

12:33 TimMc: jonaskoelker: I hope so!

12:33 dnolen: mmarczyk: at this point we should see if we can't just get you commit rights to the CLJS repo :D

12:33 mmarczyk: but, um, I need to find a lost window... just a sec

12:34 :-)

12:35 mengu: nah

12:35 uhm sorry

12:36 gfredericks: dnolen: I just cloned mori and ran the build command and it gives an error about not finding the reducers ns

12:36 mmarczyk: dnolen: well, that would be marvellous :-)

12:36 gfredericks: dnolen: nm

12:36 dnolen: gfredericks: everyone keeps saying that even tho the build instructions are quite specific :)

12:36 mmarczyk: dnolen: though with you being super-responsive as you are, not necessarily much of a speedup :-)

12:36 gfredericks: first tell dnolen something is wrong, then read the README

12:36 dnolen: mmarczyk: I'll ask around.

12:37 mmarczyk: so about CLJS-247?

12:37 mmarczyk: ok, found my lost window now

12:37 dnolen: a sanity check, sort of

12:38 uvtc: I just noticed a change from Clojure 1.3 to 1.4 that I don't see mentioned in <https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/changes.md>. With 1.4, I can now use standard libs (such as clojure.string) without needing to `require` them (just as long as I fully qualify func names).

12:38 mmarczyk: dnolen: so would you like to just inline the whole -foo ?

12:38 dnolen: mmarczyk: no

12:38 (null test && bit-mask && call direct) || protocol-fn

12:39 mmarczyk: dnolen: ok, makes sense

12:39 hiredman: uvtc: seems unlikely, most likely some tool you are using is loading them

12:39 uvtc: hiredman: I just tried it via `java -cp path/to/clojure.jar` ...

12:40 mmarczyk: dnolen: I think I might actually put the finishing touches on the benchmark runner first, if only to see some foolproof data on the result

12:40 dnolen: mmarczyk: k

12:40 uvtc: I've got 1.3 and 1.4 here, and clojure.string/split works with 1.4 without requiring it.

12:40 mmarczyk: dnolen: I love the reader branch, btw

12:41 dnolen: mmarczyk: the optimize-reader one?

12:41 mmarczyk: dnolen: yup

12:41 uvtc: hiredman:

12:41 john@foil:~/opt$ java -cp clojure-1.4.0/clojure-1.4.0.jar clojure.main

12:41 Clojure 1.4.0

12:41 user=> (clojure.string/split "hello" #"l+")

12:41 ["he" "o"]

12:41 user=>

12:41 dnolen: mmarczyk: yeah, even with all the perf enhancements still seems strangely slow.

12:41 mmarczyk: but perhaps we should merge in what we have and continue to improve -since the gains are quite large.

12:41 mmarczyk: dnolen: I was actually going to suggest that :-)

12:42 hiredman: uvtc: the repl loads it, but if you launch your code outside of the repl it won't be there

12:43 the repl loads clojure.java.javadoc for some reason, and that loads a few other things, which load other thrings, one of which is clojure.string

12:45 uvtc: hiredman: Weird. If I create a standalone script with a call to clojure.string/split in in --- and no require --- and then run it via `java -cp path/to/clojure-1.4.0.jar clojure.main foo.clj`, it works too.

12:45 dnolen: mmarczyk: merged optimize-reader into master.

12:45 mmarczyk: dnolen: great!

12:45 hiredman: uvtc: I would not recommend depending on it

12:46 uvtc: hiredman: Ok, thanks.

13:05 Is there any convention regarding what you alias standard libs to when you `require` them? For example, maybe something like `:require [clojure.string :as c.s`?

13:06 (oops, forgot closing `]` there)

13:07 I've seen [clojure.string :as str], but that seems odd, given that there's already a core `str` function.

13:09 technomancy: yeah, but putting a slash after the str function is meaningless, so there's no chance of collision

13:09 uvtc: technomancy: Oh, right. Thanks. :)

13:42 mmarczyk: dnolen: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-252 -- first cut at a benchmark suite

13:42 dnolen: mmarczyk: excellent

13:48 mmarczyk: dnolen: ah, wait, I think I'll have a minor improvement

13:51 dnolen: new patch attached

13:52 hm, V8 runs circles around SpiderMonkey

13:53 dnolen: mmarczyk: you have to use the flags -m -n -a

13:53 mmarczyk: dnolen: you mean pass them to the js runtime in script/benchmark? what do they do?

13:54 dnolen: mmarczyk: turns on JIT, skips interpretation

13:54 mmarczyk: only applies to spidermonkey

13:54 mmarczyk: if you're testing spidermonkey you should be using the shell from the nightlies

13:55 mmarczyk: dnolen: I see, thanks

13:55 dnolen: I'll update the patch to use it in the SM part then

13:55 dnolen: mmarczyk: oops already applied :)

13:55 mmarczyk: dnolen: :-)

13:57 dnolen: mind applying the new patch on CLJS-250? mapcat for reducers :-)

13:59 dnolen: also sent you a pull req w/ mapcat for mori

14:00 dnolen: mmarczyk: thx, merged

14:00 added zippers and set ops to Mori

14:00 mmarczyk: zippers :-D

14:01 `fogus: Oh my! I go away for 90 minutes and Mori is already my favorite JS lib

14:01 TimMc: Better than jQuery?

14:01 Better than Cornify?

14:01 mmarczyk: one might not be able to bring the ambrosia of macros to the JSers, but one can at least share the fire of PDSs

14:01 TimMc: haha

14:03 dnolen: mmarczyk: gotta do some other things but I'll apply those patches soon.

14:03 mmarczyk: dnolen: cool, thanks

14:07 dnolen: any chance Wednesday next week might get recorded?

14:07 dnolen: mmarczyk: thickey is coming so fingers crossed?

14:07 mmarczyk: dnolen: oh good :-)

14:09 lynaghk`: damns clojure folks are fast at the retweets.

14:09 = )

14:11 Borkdude: ,(doc if-let)

14:11 clojurebot: "([bindings then] [bindings then else & oldform]); bindings => binding-form test If test is true, evaluates then with binding-form bound to the value of test, if not, yields else"

14:11 Borkdude: what is a binding? I assumed a name and a value, right?

14:12 ,(if-let [a true, b false] :then :else)

14:12 clojurebot: #<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: if-let requires exactly 2 forms in binding vector in sandbox:>

14:12 lynaghk`: Borkdude: if-let and when-let only take one binding.

14:13 Borkdude: lynaghk`: then the doc of if-let is wrong, it should say binding

14:13 ,(doc when-let)

14:13 clojurebot: "([bindings & body]); bindings => binding-form test When test is true, evaluates body with binding-form bound to the value of test"

14:13 lynaghk`: Borkdude: agreed =(

14:14 ibdknox: I wish it took multiple :p

14:23 dnolen: ibdknox: you're like hours away now!

14:23 ibdknox: dnolen: yeah :)

14:23 there's lots of craziness that has happened otherwise too :)

14:23 dnolen: ibdknox: can't wait to hear more about that

14:24 ache: where can i read about what ibdknox is working on?

14:24 ibdknox: http://www.chris-granger.com/2012/04/12/light-table---a-new-ide-concept/

14:24 ache: thanks!

14:25 ibdknox: dnolen: I'm going to get to chat with Tim O'Reilly at the beginning of June

14:25 dnolen: ibdknox: sweet!

14:25 ibdknox: talked with lots of very interesting people

14:25 mfex: hi all, a clojure library in a jar does not need to be aot-ed to be used from other jvm languages, right?

14:26 fliebel: dnolen: I still need to touch maven to run core.logic, right?

14:26 dnolen: fliebel: ?

14:26 ibdknox: mfex: from other languages? Yes it does

14:26 TimMc: ibdknox: Ah, you're at FooCamp or whatchamacallit?

14:26 technomancy: mfex: depends on the interface you want to expose

14:27 mfex: if you make users consume it via clojure.lang.RT, then no AOT is needed.

14:27 fliebel: dnolen: I know I can add it as a dep just fine, but I mean, as a git checkout, I can't just use lein, right?

14:27 ibdknox: TimMc: yeah, I will be :) Which is an amazing opportunity. I'm very excited about it

14:27 dnolen: fliebel: all Clojure contribs are available from Maven central repo

14:27 fliebel: you can just use lein

14:28 ibdknox: fliebel: you'd have to make a fake project.clj for it

14:28 fliebel: if you want it in your checkouts/ dir

14:28 technomancy: IIRC hugod has a plugin to make mvn checkouts work with lein

14:28 fliebel: I just want it as a project to hack on

14:29 ibdknox: dnolen: TimMc: I think I might get to talk to one of the main researchers on DARPA projects at SRI too

14:29 TimMc: Haha, sweet.

14:29 dnolen: ibdknox: haha wowzers

14:29 mfex: technomancy, I don't want to aot my library jar. Is supplying a small jar that is aot compiled as only a wrapper with a nicer interface a common solution to this?

14:29 amalloy: jasonjckn: yes, i wasn't sure whether to curry or what, but as you said it seemed at least harmless

14:30 technomancy: mfex: I've seen that done for distributing uberjars, but not for library consumption. no reason you couldn't make it work though

14:30 amalloy: technomancy: i guess i'm interested, but i don't know anything about jdk8

14:31 technomancy: amalloy: me neither

14:32 nDuff: mfex: ...heck, if you _really_ didn't want anything to be native AOT-compiled Clojure, you could have a Java wrapper that just does clojure.lang.RT calls

14:32 technomancy: mfex: you could always AOT a single ns and have that ns do a runtime require of the rest of your code

14:32 that way you won't get bitten by the annoying transitive AOT behaviour

14:33 amalloy: jasonjckn (or anyone else): i'm having trouble testing my foldable Range: everything compiles fine, and mvn dependency:classpath points to an existing jsr166y jar, but when i run mvn test i get a ClassNotFoundException: jsr166y.ForkJoinTask

14:39 fliebel: > (solve-nqueens)

14:39 ()

14:39 dnolen: ^

14:39 dnolen: fliebel: the one in bench.clj?

14:39 fliebel: yea

14:41 dnolen: fliebel: yeah I recall that one being broke

14:41 fliebel: dnolen: zebrao works, though.

14:42 dnolen: fliebel: will need to look into it at some point - probably a simple mistake.

14:42 jasonjckn: amalloy: I haven't had a chance to run mvn test yet, logically I don't know why that's happening

14:43 amalloy: i'll get around to testing soon

14:43 amalloy: you could always upgrade to java 7, it's possible rhickey never tested with jar

14:46 technomancy: going to release lein2 preview4 later today

14:46 any last-minute issues to raise?

14:46 stuartsierra: jasonjckn: Clojure 1.5.0-SNAPSHOT declares jsr166y as a "scope = provided" dependency, not sure why.

14:47 technomancy: if you're using Leiningen from a checkout, could you pull and give it a run-through?

14:47 stuartsierra: But try removing <scope>provided</scope> from pom.xml to see if that fixes your problem.

14:47 jasonjckn: ah

14:47 I wondered what that did

14:50 hiredman: stuartsierra: because you don't want to drag jsr166y around if you are running on 7+

14:51 stuartsierra: hiredman: yes, I know

14:51 but I don't see what good declaring it in the first place dose

14:51 jlongster: cjfrisz: hey, dnolen pointed me to clojure-tco. I'm working on compiling to CPS-ified javascript. How big is the performance hit in clojure-tco?

14:51 stuartsierra: oh, I see, it's available at compile time

14:52 hiredman: jlongster: the real problem with "cps" clojure is it destroys interop by adding trampolines to every call

14:53 jlongster: hiredman: I know, but I'm working in another Lisp. plus, that can be circumvented, since the only problem is callbacks.

14:54 acagle: ¯/flush

15:04 amalloy: jasonjckn: updated to jdk7, the fj stuff seems to be working and now i can debug my code. thanks

15:05 jasonjckn: amalloy: great, i'm curious when you say 'debug' do you mean print debugging? or do you use something else?

15:05 fliebel: dnolen: Maybe I'm inadequate at using VisualVM, but I can't seem to find any trace of seq overhead.

15:06 amalloy: in this case i mean "inspect the stacktrace"

15:06 "and hope to remove bugs"

15:06 fliebel: that is, it crashes most of the time...

15:09 Raynes: fliebel: Hahaha, man, I love talking to people who don't know USA geography.

15:10 amalloy: Raynes: you should hang out in america, then

15:10 fliebel: Raynes: ?

15:10 amalloy: we've got tons of them

15:10 fliebel: I know where alabama is, now

15:10 Raynes: The depths of hell.

15:11 fliebel: Raynes: Any luck with the DVD hacking?

15:11 Raynes: I don't know what you mean by 'hacking'.

15:12 amalloy: $dict hacking

15:12 lazybot: amalloy: adjective: Short and interrupted, broken, jerky; hacky.

15:12 fliebel: Raynes: making your DVD player accept any DVD.

15:13 Raynes: I haven't really tried. Not sure I care enough.

15:13 TimMc: lazybot: wat

15:13 fliebel: Raynes: But you do care enough to have me send a DVD player over? :P

15:14 Raynes: I was asking if anybody had a random spare dvd player/optical drive lying around. My life shall continue without it for the time being. :P

15:14 fliebel: Raynes: I have. It's just a little tricky to get it to you.

15:15 rhc: Raynes: what city do you live in? i might be able to ship you one

15:16 Raynes: Eldridge, AL, if you can call that a city.

15:17 rhc: i have this old apex player i never use that's region unlocked (i think)

15:17 Raynes: In case anyone is wondering what the context of this discussion is, I have some region two discs and nothing that will read them, hence me asking people for spare drives because I'm cheap.

15:18 dnolen: fliebel: which fns float to the top in VisualVM?

15:18 fliebel: Raynes: If you send me a cake for my birthday, I'll send you the player :)

15:18 dnolen: ... the pushbackreaders read method. Something is not right.

15:19 Raynes: I'd send you a box of hohos.

15:19 fliebel: $dict hoho

15:19 lazybot: fliebel: Word not found.

15:19 Wild_Cat: Raynes: depending on how region checking is implemented in your drive, you may be able to read the discs with VLC

15:19 Raynes: Wild_Cat: RPC_2.

15:19 So nope.

15:19 Wild_Cat: (otherwise, look for a RPC-1 firmware for your drive on http://forum.rpc1.org/ )

15:20 amalloy: $google hostess hoho

15:20 lazybot: [Ho Hos® from Hostess Cakes (Our Products)] http://www.hostesscakes.com/hohos.asp

15:20 fliebel: Raynes: That'll do.

15:20 Wild_Cat: Raynes: I know, but some drives, despite being region-locked, can still have their protection bypassed depending on the software you use. Others, however, will refuse to even list the contents of the disc.

15:21 Raynes: This drive will list the contents of the disc, but wont let anything read those contents.

15:21 I have another drive that does the same thing.

15:22 I could temporarily set the drives region to region two and then rip everything off of all of the region 2 discs I've found myself with and then set it back, since I have 5 switches.

15:22 drive's*

15:22 That's probably the easiest option.

15:23 I've only got these few discs and I shouldn't be getting any others.

15:23 fliebel: Raynes: Oh, so no hohos for me?

15:23 Wild_Cat: Raynes: maybe. (sigh. once again, just pirating the bloody thing would be easier -- thank you, big content >.< )

15:23 Raynes: :\

15:23 fliebel: Fraid not.

15:24 I think ripping the discs is actually legal as long as I don't distribute the content (which I don't plan to do), so that's something.

15:24 Wild_Cat: region locking has to be the stupidest thing ever.

15:26 Raynes: Wild_Cat: Agreed.

15:27 Wild_Cat: it is, in fact, the one reason why I keep hating Nintendo, in spite of all the objectively awesome things they've done otherwise.

15:28 * gfredericks just googled Eldridge, AL and discovered there are no things there

15:31 Raynes: gfredericks: There is a wild Raynes.

15:32 gfredericks: One gas station, a few houses, and more churches than blades of grass.

15:35 dnolen: mmarczyk: reducer improvements applied to master

15:39 glitch99_: I'm having a hard time understanding this syntax.. I'm using incanter and there is a ($where {:le 3}) example where it chooses data by checking if it's less than 3. How do french braces work in clojure

15:39 stuartsierra: That's something specific to Incanter.

15:39 {:le 3} is just an ordinary Clojure map.

15:40 glitch99_: stuartsierra: ahh

15:42 jasonjckn: is there a lein deps equivilent in maven?

15:42 it's not grabbing the jsr166y

15:43 stuartsierra: jasonjckn: mvn dependency:copy-dependencies

15:43 What are you trying to do?

15:43 jasonjckn: i'm getting forkjoin classnotfound

15:43 even though I changed pom.xml as you said

15:44 stuartsierra: What are you running?

15:44 jasonjckn: trying again

15:44 mvn test

15:44 amalloy: stuartsierra: i had the same issue until i upgraded to jdk 7

15:44 mvn dependency:build-classpath returned a classpath that pointed at a locally-fetched version of jsr166y, but mvn test still got ClassNotFound

15:45 jasonjckn: yah still getting the error

15:45 amalloy: jasonjckn: check the output of build-classpath just to verify you and i were having the same problem?

15:46 stuartsierra: jasonjckn: cannot reproduce here, with JDK 1.6

15:46 amalloy: i'm on ubuntu 11.04, if that turns out to be relevant

15:46 Raynes: amalloy: Old softwares.

15:47 jasonjckn: [INFO] Dependencies classpath:

15:47 /Users/jason/.m2/repository/org/codehaus/jsr166-mirror/jsr166y/1.7.0/jsr166y-1.7.0.jar

15:47 Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: jsr166y.ForkJoinTask

15:47 stuartsierra: jasonjckn: Have you run ./antsetup.sh

15:47 ?

15:48 jasonjckn: yes

15:48 not since changing pom.xml

15:48 stuartsierra: What's in the maven-classpath.properties file?

15:49 jasonjckn: stuartsierra: I just regenerated it before you asked

15:49 maven.compile.classpath=/Users/jason/.m2/repository/org/codehaus/jsr166-mirror/jsr166y/1.7.0/jsr166y-1.7.0.jar

15:49 i'll try mvn test again

15:49 stuartsierra: ok that looks right

15:51 jasonjckn: stuartsierra: mvn test still failing

15:51 stuartsierra: amalloy, jasonjckn: Which specific JDK are you using? And which version of Maven?

15:51 jasonjckn: stuartsierra: java version "1.6.0_31" Apache Maven 3.0.3

15:51 stuartsierra: jasonjckn: Which JDK: Sun/Oracle, OpenJDK, ...?

15:52 jasonjckn: stuartsierra: vendor: Apple Inc

15:52 stuartsierra: ok

15:52 Trying myself with an empty ~/.m2

15:52 jasonjckn: amalloy: i installed sun jdk7 but java -version still remains 1.6, did you do anything else? maybe i'll reboot

15:53 stuartsierra: jasonjckn: You probably need to configure which JDK to use by default.

15:53 duck1123: jasonjckn: IIRC, there's a settings pannel where you have to drag 7 up to the top

15:53 devn: Raynes: Should I be expecting this in noir 1.3.0-beta6 => escape-html already refers to: #'hiccup.core/escape-html in namespace: hiccup.page

15:54 jasonjckn: duck1123: k thanks

15:54 Raynes: devn: Probably not. Open an issue.

15:54 devn: Raynes: I'm requiring [noir.server :as server]

15:54 Raynes: will do

15:55 stuartsierra: OK, even with an empty ~/.m2, cannot reproduce the problem.

15:55 duck1123: jasonjckn: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-57423014-263/how-to-install-and-uninstall-java-7-for-os-x/

15:55 jasonjckn: fixed it

15:56 trying mvn test gaain

15:56 amalloy: stuartsierra: i was using openjdk, but now i'm on jdk7 and not having problems

15:56 stuartsierra: ok

15:57 ibdknox: devn: that sounds like you're doing a :use on hiccup.something?

15:57 amalloy: jasonjckn: the stuff i had to do on ubuntu is probably not relevant to what you have to do on macos. i had to move around some symlinks and call update-alternatives a few times

15:57 stuartsierra: amalloy: Clojure is currently passing on Hudson on OpenJDK 1.6, http://build.clojure.org/job/clojure-test-matrix/77/

15:58 jasonjckn: amalloy: *nods* i managed to switch it

15:59 my unit tests passed, ship 1.5 quick!!

16:03 stuartsierra: Clojure should still work all the way back to JDK 1.5 (not including ForkJoin stuff) but starting with Clojure 1.5.0 it can only be BUILD on a 1.6 JDK.

16:05 amalloy: stuartsierra: since it's open-source friday, could i trouble someone to look at http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-993 and http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-992? rich asked for a range reducer, and i want to make sure these didn't slip under the radar to get implemented by someone else

16:05 stuartsierra: amalloy: I'll take a look in a few minutes.

16:08 amalloy: Are the patches on 993 replacements or accumulations?

16:08 amalloy: accumulations

16:08 stuartsierra: ok

16:09 jasonjckn: stuartsierra: amalloy: I just put my patch up at http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-994

16:09 i've never contributed to clojure, so not sure if i'm suppose to do anything else

16:10 stuartsierra: jasonjckn: Have you sent in a signed C.A.?

16:10 jasonjckn: can I e-mail the agreement?

16:10 no

16:10 amalloy: jasonjckn: no, signed on dead trees only

16:10 jasonjckn: ah that's annoying

16:10 stuartsierra: So far Rich has always asked for signed paper.

16:11 amalloy: ah, i like the invoke-2-fns thing, jasonjckn

16:11 jasonjckn: is there a contributors list for that trouble at least?

16:11 ah i see

16:11 amalloy: ~contribute

16:11 clojurebot: contribute is http://clojure.org/contributing

16:12 jasonjckn: that's a lot more people than I thought

16:12 brehaut: not everyone on there has actually contrubuted to clojure though; just signed the form

16:12 amalloy: it's not the case that everyone with a CA has contributed

16:13 that's the clojure/dev list, which is a lot larger and less powerful than clojure/core

16:13 jasonjckn: how backwards

16:13 technomancy: looks like the total number of contributors is 79

16:14 jasonjckn: do I get git credentials?

16:14 brehaut: jasonjckn: i signed the form despite not having anything to contribute because its a bloody long way for snail mail from new zealand and didnt want to get caught waiting if i did have something to contribute

16:14 jasonjckn: *nods*

16:14 technomancy: jasonjckn: become Rich Hickey

16:14 jasonjckn: is he the only one?

16:14 brehaut: his hair has a seperate account

16:14 its also got credentials

16:15 amalloy: jasonjckn: you (can) get commit rights to contrib, but not to core, i believe

16:15 samaaron: You could make a hammock out of Rich's hair

16:15 jasonjckn: I would be okay with reincarnating as Rich Hickey's hair, with git credentials

16:15 it's already quite an honor

16:15 stuartsierra: Only 4 people have commit access on Clojure.

16:15 jasonjckn: k

16:15 amalloy: any changes you want to make go through JIRA patches, to be applied by someone else

16:15 technomancy: stuartsierra: is one of them named Hudson?

16:16 jasonjckn: as far as benevolent dictators go, rhickey is not too bad

16:16 stuartsierra: technomancy: yes

16:16 And we're under strict instructions not to commit anything until Rich has personally OK'd it.

16:18 technomancy: clojurebot: bus factor is best if you try not to think about it. (https://github.com/clojure/clojure/graphs/contributors)

16:18 clojurebot: Ik begrijp

16:25 TimMc: How come there are all those other committers?

16:25 (Or at least authors.) Were pull requests accepted once upon a time?

16:25 technomancy: TimMc: git format-patch maintains authorship data

16:25 stuartsierra: Git preserves the original patch author separate from the committer.

16:25 TimMc: Ah, right.

16:33 zanes: Getting this stacktrace when I try to lein autotest. Anyone seen this before? https://gist.github.com/cdaf4ee623e33d78f1db

16:35 muhoo: there's a big difference from wanting to create a cool language, and wanting to lead an open-source community

16:39 fliebel: muhoo: What makes you say that?

16:39 muhoo: earlier discussion about bus-factor, commmit access, jira, etc

16:41 cmcbride: if I have a string, is there a function in core that will give me all possible sub-strings of length n

16:41 fliebel: cmcbride: partition

16:41 cmcbride: I guess I could do a greedy regex

16:42 that doesnt seem like all of them

16:42 if I have "abcd", I want "ab", "bc", "cd"

16:42 fliebel: &(partition 3 1 "abcd")

16:42 lazybot: ⇒ ((\a \b \c) (\b \c \d))

16:42 cmcbride: partiton would just give me "ab" "cd"

16:42 fliebel: &(partition 2 1 "abcd")

16:42 lazybot: ⇒ ((\a \b) (\b \c) (\c \d))

16:42 cmcbride: oh oops

16:42 thanks

16:43 jasonjckn: i did some really basic benchmarking of reducers http://pastebin.com/DSm69GZu very impressive performance

16:43 (dual core machine)

16:44 adeelkh: hey dnolen, mori looks really cool. what potential applications does it have, in your opinion? i mean, why wouldn't you just use clojurescript? :)

16:45 amalloy: jasonjckn: yeah, pretty impressive. and it should get better still if you compare multiple layers of lazy sequences like (reduce + (map inc (filter even? (range 10000))))

16:45 jasonjckn: *nods*

16:45 dnolen: adeelkh: thanks

16:45 amalloy: cmcbride: you want combinations

16:45 technomancy: zanes: I think lein-autotest is abandoned

16:45 dnolen: adeelkh: I could but that means people I code w/ have to know Lisp.

16:45 amalloy: no, never mind

16:46 dnolen: adeelkh: Mori is a good way to get a lot of the good stuff w/o everyone needing to understand Clojure.

16:46 kmicu: (let [{k v} {:k 1}] println (str k v))

16:47 dnolen: adeelkh: I think Mori is useful for any JS application where you want to have more sensible state management and perf is not the ultimate concern - which is a lot of JS programs :)

16:47 jasonjckn: amalloy: http://pastebin.com/iz8bzrdw with a map

16:47 zanes: technomancy: Okay, thanks. Seems like midje is the new hotness?

16:48 muhoo: is it expected behavior that a noir middleware would run 3 times per each request? https://www.refheap.com/paste/2684

16:48 adeelkh: dnolen: ah, ok. makes sense.

16:48 jasonjckn: amalloy: the clojuer.core one is 2x slower, the others are more around 1.3x slower :)

16:48 technomancy: zanes: I think most people just use clojure.core with editor integration

16:49 zanes: it's easy to make clojure.test tests run whenever you save in swank-clojure, for instance

16:49 dnolen: adeelkh: I would certainly use it over any other existing FP JS lib, Mori leverages CLJS so it's chock filled with data structures and tools :)

16:49 technomancy: zanes: no reason lein-autotest couldn't be upgraded to work with clojure.test though

16:49 dakrone: ^ right?

16:50 zanes: technomancy: You mean with a post save hook or something like that?

16:50 technomancy: zanes: yeah

16:50 zanes: Got it. Okay.

16:50 brehaut: dnolen, adeelkh: has datastructurse at all puts it way above most JS libs

16:50 muhoo: i am looking to build a noir handler that has side-effects, is why i'm asking

16:51 sorry, a middleware

16:51 technomancy: zanes: in fact, clojure-test-mode's "run these tests" command will prompt you to save anyway, so if you're using Emacs, that's the way to go

16:51 seems like the whole "watch for filesystem changes and run X" should be extracted into its own library if it hasn't been already though; I know of at least three independent reimplementations

16:52 adeelkh: dnolen: what other FP libraries are there for javascript?

16:53 stuartsierra: technomancy: I've offered my Lazytest stuff as a contrib. Brenton Ashworth has been working on refactoring it into an independent library.

16:53 zanes: I didn't even know about clojure-test-mode.

16:53 dnolen: adeelkh: wu.js, underscore.js, fun.coffee (which I did), http://osteele.com/sources/javascript/functional/, probably many others.

16:53 technomancy: stuartsierra: cool. did your implementation poll, or did it hook into OS-level filesystem notifications?

16:53 stuartsierra: poll

16:54 technomancy: yeah, lot sure the latter is possible without JNI =(

16:55 adeelkh: dnolen: cool thanks. a while ago i was looking for a functional approach to DOM manipulation but there doesn't seem to be anything

16:56 dnolen: adeelkh: what kind of DOM manipulation?

16:56 nDuff: technomancy: believe it is currently, though that's a relatively new thing

16:57 technomancy: nDuff: nio or some such?

16:57 nio2?

16:59 nDuff: Thought it was newer than NIO... but not having much luck googling it up; all the JNI-based libraries are adding a fair bit of clutter.

16:59 technomancy: I think NIO2 is new in java 7

16:59 adeelkh: dnolen: well basically something along the lines of clojurescript's clojure.browser.dom, but in javascript

17:00 dnolen: adeelkh: i see

17:03 gozala: dnolen: question regarding mori and publishing to npm

17:04 dnolen: gozala: go ahead

17:04 gozala: dnolen: are you ok with adding package.json to your repo ?

17:04 dnolen: gozala: yep

17:05 gozala: but then you'll need to install npm and create an account to publish

17:05 I can send pull request with package.json

17:05 dnolen: gozala: excellent

17:05 gozala: I have npm installed, just need to create an account I guess.

17:06 gozala: dnolen: oh and there is on more thing

17:06 exports have to be set on exports object

17:07 is that something that can be done with cljsbuild ?

17:08 dnolen: gozala: not really, we really need a shell script any how.

17:08 gozala: to wrap mori.js in a function closure when running the browser.

17:08 running in

17:09 gozala: so one script for the node build, and one for browser I think.

17:09 clojurebot: ClojureScript is https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript

17:09 gozala: dnolen: btw readme sugests that non-reducers based map/filter is faster or do I missunderstand ?

17:10 dnolen: gozala: that's comparing native fp ops on primitive JS arrays.

17:11 gozala: reducers will be faster than the CLJS seq oriented map/filter/reduce

17:11 gozala: dnolen: Oh right I have not realized it was native arrays

17:12 dnolen: BTW did you had chance to digg into reducers yet ?

17:12 dnolen: gozala: compared against primitive arrays that pretty impressive - given that there's a lot left to optimize in CLJS.

17:12 gozala: nope

17:12 gozala: but using them is easy :)

17:12 gozala: dnolen: I'm just trying to figure out if you can consume reducer lazily

17:13 or to be more precise pause consumption and then continue from wherever you left

17:14 dnolen: gozala: I don't know

17:15 gozala: Yeah maybe you can tweet after ny clojure ;)

17:15 ivan: jasonjckn: where did your r/repeat come from in the benchmark?

17:16 jasonjckn: ivan: uncommitted code http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-994

17:16 ivan: hah, thanks

17:23 TimMc: $mail foxdonut Urgh, Spring's JDBC thing apparently just splits on semicolons! http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3768815/spring-datasourceinitializer-splits-trigger-ins-sql-by-delimiter

17:23 lazybot: Message saved.

17:23 technomancy: ha ha

17:23 TimMc: :-(

17:27 gozala: dnolen: I can't load mori seems to dislike t("mori.rmap", reducers.map);

17:27 I suspect that may be something with my cljs version

17:28 cmcbride: gozala: you need the HEAD version of clojurescript

17:28 dnolen: gozala: mkdir checkouts, clone clojurescript into it.

17:29 gozala: dnolen: also version here has same issue https://github.com/swannodette/mori/downloads

17:30 dnolen: gozala: oops looking into it

17:35 weavejester: Does anyone have any ideas about the best way to bind a cached value to a record representing a ref?

17:35 uvtc: How can I access the docstring for a namespace? For a simple project named "foo", using lein 2, the following doesn't work: `(doc foo.core)`

17:35 weavejester: I mean, I could have the cache inside the record, but that seems inelegant.

17:36 technomancy: ,(doc (the-ns 'clojure.string))

17:36 clojurebot: #<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentList cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Symbol>

17:36 weavejester: uvtc: doc works for me. Have you required the namespace?

17:36 technomancy: oops

17:36 weavejester: ,(doc clojure.string)

17:36 clojurebot: #<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.string>

17:36 uvtc: weavejester: This is after starting up `lein repl`

17:37 weavejester: uvtc: I just tested it. Try (require 'foo.core) then (doc foo.core)

17:37 dnolen: gozala: thx, should be fixed now

17:37 uvtc: weavejester: Thanks, but that's still not working. It's telling me: foo.core=> (doc foo.core)

17:37 ClassNotFoundException foo.core java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run (URLClassLoader.java:217)

17:37 gozala: I'll give it a try

17:38 uvtc: weavejester: I've got ":main foo.core" in my project.clj. Trying it without that.

17:38 weavejester: uvtc: Have you required it?

17:39 Not sure it would work if you were inside the ns...

17:39 uvtc: weavejester: Yes, I required it.

17:39 weavejester: Anyway… :) - caching… should a cache be stored inside a record, or weakly refed to the record?

17:39 uvtc: When I load up a REPL and do: (require 'ragtime.core) (doc ragtime.core) it works

17:40 gozala: dnolen: can you successfully build it ?

17:40 dnolen: gozala: yes

17:40 gozala: but you need to build against ClojureScript HEAD

17:40 gozala: I just got SEVERE: /Users/gozala/Projects/mori/.lein-cljsbuild-compiler-0/mori.js:4: ERROR - required "clojure.core.reducers" namespace never provided

17:40 goog.require('clojure.core.reducers');

17:40 but it seems to work though

17:40 dnolen: gozala: lein cljsbuild clean

17:41 gozala: try again

17:41 gozala: ahh

17:41 uvtc: weavejester: Hm. Thanks. I tried removing the ":main foo.core" from project.clj, but that didn't help. My ns macro in core.clj looks like this: (ns foo.core

17:41 "docstring for this namespace"

17:41 (:require fs.core clojure.string))

17:41 gozala: dnolen: so does exports now create globals ?

17:41 in js version I mean

17:42 weavejester: uvtc: When I write: (ns foo.core "foobar") (doc foo.core) it works for me too.

17:42 dnolen: gozala: no ^:export just prevents GClosure symbol obfuscation

17:42 weavejester: uvtc: What version of Clojure are you running this under?

17:42 uvtc: weavejester: 1.4 (just a sec, afk)

17:43 dnolen: gozala: everything in mori.js gets added to a mori object. However all the CLJS stuff is global, thus we want a fn closure for that stuff.

17:43 gozala: dnolen: BTW I still see that warning even after `lein cljsbuild clean`

17:44 dnolen: gozala: did you change project.clj?

17:44 weavejester: uvtc: Ah, okay, I see the error.

17:44 gozala: I pulled from your repo

17:44 dnolen: gozala: which version of lein are you using?

17:44 pcavs: I have a core.logic question: How would I create a relation that would be similar to (== (> a b) true) or (== (> a 5) true)

17:45 dnolen: pcavs: look at core.logic.arithmetic

17:45 gozala: dnolen: 1.7.0

17:45 dnolen: gozala: and that error occurs while building?

17:45 pcavs: dnolen: muchos gracias

17:46 gozala: yeah I run lein deps && lein cljsbuild once release

17:46 uvtc: weavejester: {back} sorry about that.

17:46 felideon: muchas*

17:46 uvtc: weavejester: What error do you see?

17:46 gozala: and I see it durinc compilation

17:46 weavejester: uvtc: The error exists in 1.4, not in 1.2. Let me check 1.3.

17:47 dnolen: gozala: and you made the checkouts directory?

17:47 weavejester: uvtc: In 1.3 too… at least when I'm in the namespace

17:47 dnolen: gozala: and cloned clojurescript into it?

17:47 gozala: yeap and symlinked to lates clojurescript

17:47 dnolen: gozala: try w/o symlink, just clone it into checkouts

17:48 gozala: ok

17:48 it worked with symlinks before though

17:48 dnolen: gozala: your probably right, but better just to do exactly the same steps.

17:48 weavejester: uvtc: Odd. "doc" doesn't seem to work for namespaces at all for 1.3 and above. You could do (:doc (meta (the-ns 'foo.core)))

17:50 uvtc: (find-doc "foo.core") works

17:51 uvtc: weavejester: going straight into the repl and trying `(:doc (meta (the-ns 'foo.core)))` just returns nil for me.

17:51 gozala: dnolen: ok so it has to do something with symlink or with my clone

17:51 it works with just cloning

17:51 dnolen: gozala: cool

17:51 weavejester: uvtc: Try just (meta (the-ns 'foo.core)) then?

17:52 gozala: dnolen: thanks

17:52 weavejester: uvtc: Or even (the-ns 'foo.core)

17:52 uvtc: weavejester: Hm. `(find-doc "foo.core")` also returns nil.

17:52 weavejester: as does ` (meta (the-ns 'foo.core))`

17:52 weavejester: (I know I've got a docstring in there, and I know I'm in the right directory...)

17:53 weavejester: uvtc: Are you sure you have that namespace? If you do (the-ns 'foo.core) does it exist? Have you required it?

17:53 uvtc: weavejester: foo.core=> (the-ns 'foo.core)

17:53 #<Namespace foo.core>

17:53 weavejester: uvtc: And it has no metadata?

17:53 uvtc: weavejester: foo.core=> (meta (the-ns 'foo.core))

17:53 nil

17:53 gozala: dnolen: symlinks work as well it's just I have fetched but forgot to merge in my cljs dir

17:54 weavejester: uvtc: Try: (ns foo.core "foobar") (meta (the-ns 'foo.core))

17:55 dnolen: gozala: gotcha

17:55 uvtc: weavejester: foo.core=> (ns foo.core "foobar") (meta (the-ns 'foo.core))

17:55 nil

17:55 nil

17:56 jasonjckn: in the reducers blog post rhickey writes "Those IFn.LLL, DDD etc primitive-taking function interfaces can now spring to life."

17:56 can someone expand on this?

17:56 uvtc: weavejester: Just triple-checked. I'm in the correct dir, looking at the correct files. My lein repl prompt tells me I'm in: "foo.core=>".

17:57 jasonjckn: I googled LLL and DDD and nothing came up, except that blog post

17:57 ivan: jasonjckn: long long long, double double double?

17:57 jasonjckn: that was my guess too

17:57 but I still don't know what he wants for reducers..

17:57 TimMc: jasonjckn: Have you looked at IFn.java in clojure core?

17:57 jasonjckn: Is IFn.LLL a real thing right now?

17:58 nop,i'll check it out

17:58 weavejester: uvtc: Maybe the problem is that ns doesn't overwrite

17:58 uvtc: weavejester: I can call the little functions I've defined in my core.clj file, and at the top of that file is the `(ns foo.core "docstring for this namespace" (:require fs.core clojure.string))`. Maybe I should try removing those :requires...

17:58 TimMc: &org.clojure.IFn$LOL

17:58 lazybot: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.clojure.IFn$LOL

17:58 stuartsierra: jasonjckn: The nested classes in IFn are interfaces for primitive-taking functions.

17:58 TimMc: &clojure.lang.IFn$LOL

17:58 lazybot: ⇒ clojure.lang.IFn$LOL

17:58 weavejester: uvtc: Try a completely new namespace: (ns another.core "foobar") (meta (the-ns 'another.core))

17:59 uvtc: weavejester: ok, just a sec.

17:59 stuartsierra: amalloy: I can't screen your patches until I know enough about the reducers implementation to understand them. But I've passed the word around.

17:59 uvtc: weavejester: lein new another ... changing the project.clj to use 1.4...

18:00 weavejester: uvtc: Don't actually create a file for it. Just generate the namespace in the REPL.

18:00 uvtc: Literally just type: (ns another.core "foobar") (meta (the-ns 'another.core)) in your REPL.

18:00 uvtc: weavejester: Oh. Whoops. Ok.

18:01 weavejester: foo.core=> (ns another.core "foobar") (meta (the-ns 'another.core))

18:01 nil

18:01 {:doc "foobar"}

18:01 weavejester: uvtc: Okay, that's good :)

18:02 uvtc: So you must be creating your other namespace without a docstring somehow.

18:02 uvtc: weavejester: :). Also, now my prompt says "another.core=>"

18:02 weavejester: uvtc: Change out of it with (in-ns 'user)

18:02 uvtc: weavejester: ok.

18:03 weavejester: uvtc: What does your foo.core ns declaration look like?

18:03 uvtc: weavejester: tried again (doc foo.core), (require 'foo.core) (doc foo.core) but got the same as before.

18:03 (ns foo.core

18:03 "docstring for this namespace")

18:03 weavejester: ^

18:04 weavejester: uvtc: Try restarting your REPL? Maybe ns doesn't overwrite the docstring and you loaded a version without the doc.

18:05 uvtc: weavejester: Thanks for the suggestion, though, I've been restarting it as we've been trying here.

18:05 weavejester: uvtc: Yes, it looks like ns doesn't override existing namespace metadata.

18:05 uvtc: Are there any other instances in your source tree where you create the foo.core namespace?

18:06 uvtc: weavejester: no, this is just a trivial project I created for testing stuff.

18:06 weavejester: uvtc: Hm… So there's no other (ns foo.core) around?

18:07 uvtc: Not even in, say, your test directory?

18:07 uvtc: weavejester: Just what lein2 put there (core_test.clj).

18:07 weavejester: trying this with a clean new project...

18:08 weavejester: uvtc: You could also try seeing if Lein is hooking into any processes that are left running.

18:08 uvtc: weavejester: john@foil:~/temp/another$ ps -ef | grep -i lein

18:08 john 28956 20523 0 18:07 pts/2 00:00:00 grep --color=auto -i lein

18:08 john@foil:~/temp/another$ ps -ef | grep -i java

18:08 john 28958 20523 0 18:07 pts/2 00:00:00 grep --color=auto -i java

18:08 weavejester: uvtc: Try it with a new project I guess...

18:09 uvtc: weavejester: user=> (doc another.core)

18:09 ClassNotFoundException another.core java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run (URLClassLoader.java:217)

18:09 weavejester: user=> (require 'another.core)

18:09 nil

18:09 user=> (doc another.core)

18:09 ClassNotFoundException another.core java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run (URLClassLoader.java:217)

18:09 weavejester: uvtc: Yeah, but we know the doc macro is broken for namespaces

18:09 uvtc: Try the (meta (the-ns 'another.core))

18:10 uvtc: Ensuring it has a docstring, of course.

18:10 uvtc: weavejester: thanks for the clarification. user=> (meta (the-ns 'another.core))

18:10 {:doc "docstring for another "}

18:10 weavejester: works!

18:10 weavejester: uvtc: I wonder what's different to your other project then...

18:10 uvtc: weavejester: Oh, I hadn't added ":main another.core" yet.

18:11 weavejester: trying that. ...

18:11 weavejester: another.core=> (require 'another.core)

18:11 nil

18:11 another.core=> (meta (the-ns 'another.core))

18:11 nil

18:12 weavejester: uvtc: Curious. Raise it as an issue on Leiningen, perhaps.

18:12 uvtc: weavejester: thanks alot for your time!

18:12 pikapp: if i were to implement my own version of Long.valueOf(String) what would be a good way of doing it?

18:12 weavejester: uvtc: No problem. I'll send a message to clojure-dev about clojure.repl/doc

18:12 pikapp: whoops, wrong room

18:13 weavejester: uvtc: Ah, it's already a known issue: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-902

18:14 patchwork: my app is depending on two different versions of hiccup, and I don't even have it listed in my dependencies!

18:14 uvtc: weavejester: thanks for that link. (Looks like it's slated to go in 1.5?)

18:14 patchwork: How is this possible?

18:15 Is there a way to see what is depending on a certain jar?

18:15 weavejester: uvtc: Or 1.4.1. My guess about the Leiningen :main issue is that it creates a blank namespace before loading your source file.

18:16 uvtc: And the ns macro doesn't add any metadata if the namespace already exists.

18:16 technomancy: patchwork: `lein deps :tree` if you're using lein2

18:16 patchwork: otherwise `lein pom && mvn dependency:tree`

18:16 uvtc: weavejester: Ok. Will add an issue in lein's issue tracker at github. Thanks.

18:17 weavejester: uvtc: No problem :)

18:17 patchwork: technomancy: perfect! thank you

18:18 weavejester: What do people think about putting atoms or other refs inside records or types?

18:18 di-csuehs: I'm beating my head against something stupid, trying to deploy a noir app in Tomcat

18:18 weavejester: It kinda ruins their print-ability.

18:20 pcavs: dnolen: do you have any examples for how to use core.logic.arithematic?

18:20 weavejester: I wonder if a cache pointer counts as metadata...

18:20 dnolen: pcavs: not handy no, are you confused by something?

18:20 eggsby: I want to see 'SEND MORE MONEY' in core.logic

18:21 dnolen: gozala: merged your changes, thx!

18:21 eggsby: google is my friend

18:21 https://gist.github.com/2364695

18:22 dnolen: eggsby: which is slow in the current core.logic, would be faster w/ cKanren extensions.

18:22 pcavs: dnolen: I think my problem is understanding how goals, run*, and relational vs non relational all interact. I think I just need to sit down with my reasoned schemer and read some more.

18:22 technomancy: weavejester: I've wanted memoize's cache atom to be stored in metadata since forever

18:23 gozala: dnolen: cool! you're welcome ;)

18:23 eggsby: tbh core.logic is way over my head and I have no idea how to approach it (it being my first introduction to logic programming), I'm in love w/ core.match, though

18:23 weavejester: technomancy: I guess it is data about data

18:23 dnolen: eggsby: great!

18:24 amalloy: weavejester: i put atoms and refs inside records and types whenever i have a record or type that needs an atom or a ref :P

18:24 weavejester: amalloy: It kinda spoils printability though… and I only need the atom for a cache.

18:25 eggsby: what is the best way to dip my toes into the logic programming world, it seems pretty all or nothing from what I can tell, whereas pattern matching I can integrate into stuff I've already written

18:25 logic programs are pretty much purely logical programs, right?

18:27 and another unrelated note... is there some lein plugin I can use to simplify stacktraces so they don't include the clojure implementation logic in the trace? (i.e. no .java files)

18:27 technomancy: oh crap

18:27 I forgot to merge that branch of clj-stacktrace

18:27 weavejester: eggsby: I think they need to operate in their own little world, but their outputs can be used by anything.

18:28 technomancy: it's been sitting there forever =\

18:28 weavejester: technomancy: I occassionally have times when that happens.

18:28 technomancy: Occassionally ;)

18:28 dnolen: gozala: so will 'npm publish' trigger the build part?

18:28 technomancy: weavejester: I'd feel worse if it weren't my own branch =)

18:29 oh that's right; I was waiting on longbottom.

18:29 gozala: dnolen: nope

18:29 you have to run npm run build first

18:30 dnolen: although it's a good point I think there might be a hook on npm to atuomate that

18:30 on publish

18:30 dnolen: gozala: k I think published it

18:31 gozala: dnolen: so if you change in package.json scritps bulid to prepublish

18:31 it should do it on npm publish

18:32 dnolen: gozala: so change "build" key to "prepublish" ?

18:33 gozala: yeah

18:33 tomoj: really excited about mori. getting this error trying to build: https://gist.github.com/7dab21323787b9ef35b5

18:33 clues?

18:33 cleaned my clojurescript, pulled master, and rebootstrapped it

18:34 dnolen: tomoj: are you sure you pulled master?

18:34 ivan: maybe you have another closure-library in your classpath?

18:34 dnolen: Mori 0.1.0 on npm

18:34 tomoj: 2469b7c0

18:34 sweet

18:35 src/cljs/clojure/core/reducers.cljs exists in $CLOJURESCRIPT_HOME

18:36 dnolen: tomoj: are you building via creating checkout dir and cloning into it?

18:36 checkouts dir I mean

18:36 tomoj: my bad

18:36 thanks

18:37 was too excited to read apparently

18:45 devn: hmm, how does clojure.pprint/code-dispatch work

18:45 dnolen: tomoj: haha, makes sense. Mori is something JS devs can start using at work today :)

18:46 devn: i remember using (with-pprint-dispatch *code-dispatch* string)

18:46 is that still the idea? the earmuffs are gone these days

18:49 nevermind

18:49 i needed to call read-string on it :\

18:51 dakrone: technomancy: correct

18:52 technomancy: dakrone: re: autotest?

18:56 dakrone: technomancy: yea, albeit a fair about of work, I'll put it on the todo list

18:56 dpritchett: been staring at mapcat for a long time trying to figure it out

18:56 specifically (apply map list [[1 2 3] [4 5 6] [7 8 9]])

18:57 i read the source so i understand that it's (apply concat (apply map f colls)) i just don't quite get it

18:58 technomancy: dakrone: maybe you can get zanes to do it =)

18:58 zanes: technomancy: Too late. I'm happy with clojure-test-mode. ;)

18:58 technomancy: oops, too late =)

18:59 ivan: &(map list [1 2] [3 4])

18:59 lazybot: ⇒ ((1 3) (2 4))

18:59 ivan: &(map vector [1 2] [3 4])

18:59 lazybot: ⇒ ([1 3] [2 4])

18:59 dpritchett: (i dont really understand that result ivan

19:00 ohh, i didnt understand how map worked with multiple collections

19:00 i only ever used it with a single collection

19:00 ivan: yep, it can do that :)

19:14 uvtc: weavejester: filed the issue, <https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/575>, but technomancy pointed out that it's actually a bug in Clojure (#CLJ-130)

19:15 weavejester: uvtc: Okay :)

19:33 KognizantKog: Hi, guys. I am currently learning clojure and was wondering if anyone knew of any examples of using XNA with ClojureCLR? I've tried searching, but came up with nothing. Just curious.

19:52 locojay: hi i m new to clojure. how can i map a function over a sequence the function takes two args one fixed and an iterator. (defn funtomap [val1,val1] (+ val1, val2)) now need to map funcmap to a vec [1,2,3] with a fixed value for val1 say 5 to get [6,7,8]

19:53 thearthur: locojay: (repeat [5])

19:54 err (repeat 5)

19:54 no []

19:55 (map + [1 2 3] (repeat 5))

19:55 locojay: thearthur: thanks

20:05 gfredericks: ,(map (partial + 5) [1 2 3])

20:05 clojurebot: (6 7 8)

20:06 thearthur: ,(8)

20:06 clojurebot: #<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>

20:07 thearthur: ,'(8)

20:07 clojurebot: (8)

20:07 tomoj: is it impossible to extend ISeqable etc to the arguments objects in js?

20:08 thearthur: hehe the 8) renders as an emoticon in Colloquy, clojure bot is happy to see me

20:09 tomoj: `(function() {return arguments.__proto__;})(1) == Object.prototype` returns true :'(

20:11 thearthur: ,`(function() {return arguments.__proto__;})(1) == Object.prototype`

20:11 clojurebot: #<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>

20:11 thearthur: ,(function() {return arguments.__proto__;})(1) == Object.prototype

20:11 clojurebot: #<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>

20:11 tomoj: in javascript of course

20:12 thearthur: ,(symbol ":'(")

20:12 clojurebot: :'(

20:12 gfredericks: ,:-D

20:12 clojurebot: :-D

20:13 * thearthur chuckles

20:13 thearthur: much easier to make clojurebot happy than sad

20:16 locojay: theatur : strange this does not work in my case on this https://gist.github.com/2663252 mq is zmqhelper

20:16 https://github.com/imatix/zguide/blob/master/examples/Clojure/zhelpers.clj

20:17 mq/send-more does not even get called

20:19 hiredman: ~map

20:19 clojurebot: map is hard

20:19 hiredman: ~map

20:19 clojurebot: map and the other sequence functions used to be lazy, but with the advent of chunked sequences, may or may not be lazy, consult your local ouija board

20:19 hiredman: ~map

20:19 clojurebot: map is hello, my name

20:19 hiredman: ~map

20:19 clojurebot: map is lazy

20:19 thearthur: locojay: map is lazy

20:19 hiredman: thats the one

20:19 locojay: ah k

20:20 thearthur: ~last

20:20 clojurebot: It's greek to me.

20:20 gfredericks: clojurebot: last is not lazy

20:20 clojurebot: In Ordnung

20:23 locojay: ~doseq

20:23 clojurebot: doseq is like for, but for side effects instead of values

20:23 locojay: and works in this case :)

20:40 muhoo: ~greek

20:40 clojurebot: Excuse me?

20:40 muhoo: ~opa!

20:40 clojurebot: Titim gan éirí ort.

20:40 muhoo: it's irish tome

20:40 to me

20:43 amalloy: can someone confirm for me that in (extend-type Foo Proto (proto-fn [this] (.blah this))), the `this` object is typehinted so that .blah is fast?

20:49 tomoj: so I'm thinking of exposing apply in mori (I have an underscore.js mixin for this currently). but it would be nice if it would work on `arguments` too. unfortunately it seems impossible to extend ISeqable to arguments. any workaround ideas? I thought of having `mori.arguments()` return the arguments as an array, but that seems impossible too

20:49 dnolen: amalloy: it is, otherwise core.logic would be dog slow.

20:53 _KY_: I'm using enclojure, built the hello world project, but when run it says <cannot find main class>. what to do?

20:55 dnolen: if anybody wants to help w/ documenting Mori that would be awesome :)

20:57 gfredericks: in core.logic, if a goal has several clauses that are quite similar, should it be possible to refactor out the similarities without using macros?

20:57 tomoj: dnolen: how do you build it for node.js? was getting main-cli-fn problems trying to just change the target to :nodejs

20:57 gfredericks: nevermind that is a silly and nebulous question.

20:58 rbxbx: dnolen: it seems pretty well documented to me, what did you have in mind?

20:59 tomoj: (setting *main-cli-fn* to a noop at the bottom of mori.cljs didn't help)

20:59 dnolen: tomoj: npm build run

20:59 rbxbx: heh, well documented for fp heads and Clojure users :)

20:59 tomoj: package.json missing?

20:59 oh I can steal it

21:00 dnolen: rbxbx: would be nice to get Underscore.js level of documentation.

21:00 amalloy: dnolen: thanks

21:00 dnolen: rbxbx: for JS devs.

21:00 tomoj: steal it? it's in the repo

21:01 tomoj: ah, pulled, thanks,

21:01 rbxbx: dnolen: marginalia style?

21:02 dnolen: it might be nice to have a side by side – when you would do x in JS, you could do y if you were using mori... not sure if that belongs in docs though?

21:03 dnolen: rbxbx: side by side would be nice - but just having the usage like Underscore.js would be enough I think.

21:03 rbxbx: what I would truly love

21:04 rbxbx: fancy intro page a la Handlebar.js + Underscore.js doc page.

21:04 zanes: Does defrecord give me a test function as well?

21:05 rbxbx: dnolen: ooo, indeed. Hadn't seen Handlebar.js's homepage before. Very well done.

21:09 dnolen: I may take a stab at that tomorrow, not sure I have the bandwidth tonight. It would also have the pleasant side-effect of forcing me to understand what everything in Mori does ;)

21:10 gfredericks: either the core.logic != macro is deeply hard for me to understand or else the README has a typo.

21:10 dnolen: rbxbx: that would awesome :)

21:11 gfredericks: != is a bit strange - it's a disequality constraint

21:12 gfredericks: dnolen: I read the docstring and still cannot explain the readme

21:12 if it weren't for the readme I would assume I understood !=

21:13 dnolen: gfredericks: it just guarantees that two terms can never unify.

21:13 gfredericks: dnolen: so (!= [x 2] [y 1]) should have no effect, since (not= 2 1), right?

21:13 dnolen: (!= [x 1] [2 y])

21:13 amalloy: anyone remember what {:static true} means on a defn? it looks to me like the current version of the compiler completely ignores it, i just want to make sure that's true

21:13 gfredericks: ah okay; so typo it is

21:15 technomancy: amalloy: yeah, it's ignored now. it was an experiment for an opt-in way to turn off ^:dynamic-by-default, but it never worked quite right

21:15 dnolen: gfredericks: oops, fixed now

21:16 gfredericks: I think someone had mentioned that before but it wasn't clear to me it was I typo

21:16 gfredericks: dnolen: looks great, thanks

21:17 technomancy: leiningen 2.0.0-preview4 released

21:18 `lein upgrade` should pull it in if you're on preview3

21:37 lynaghk`: technomancy: wooo, thanks.

21:42 brehaut: dnolen: do you need JDK7 to build mori now that its got reducers?

21:42 dnolen: brehaut: haha no :)

21:42 brehaut: ain't no fork/join in JS :)

21:43 brehaut: dnolen: hmm. i get "ERROR - required "clojure.core.reducers" namespace never provided

21:43 goog.require('clojure.core.reducers');" trying to build

21:43 dnolen: brehaut: yes this has been plaguing everyone all day :)

21:43 brehaut: you need to create the checkouts directory

21:43 brehaut: aah :) sorry about that

21:43 dnolen: brehaut: you need to clone ClojureScript repo into there as clojurescript

21:43 brehaut: then you can build.

21:44 brehaut: it's says that in the instructions, but I guess people are excited and skimming :)

21:44 brehaut: dnolen: i havent reread the instructions since last night

21:44 dnolen: brehaut: oh yeah, sorry - instructions have changed a bit.

21:45 brehaut: so i see, sorry to be an arse then

21:45 dnolen: it looks like mori is missing juxt ?

21:45 and i guess its pair which amalloy has called knit in useful

21:46 dnolen: brehaut: if you add it and send I pull request I will merge it.

21:46 brehaut: cool :)

21:46 dnolen: send a pull

21:46 brehaut: got to write it and build it first ;)

21:46 'write it'

21:51 _KY_: Can I mix java and clojure code in the same project?

21:51 jasonjckn: _KY_: yes

21:52 _KY_: you can mix any JVM language

21:52 technomancy: well

21:52 currently Leiningen only has plugins for Java, Scala, and Groovy

21:52 though IIRC there's one for JRuby in development

21:53 _KY_: I'm using intelliJ now

22:00 brehaut: crap. need to learn asciidoc

22:00 or soething?

22:00 oh, no i just apparently dont understand markdown

22:01 dnolen: are you wanting to use vectors for tuple shaped stuff in mori, or JS arrays?

22:08 dnolen: brehaut: ?

22:08 brehaut: dnolen: i might be missremembering, but last night you were talking about tuples using native JS arrays

22:09 dnolen: brehaut: hmm, I'm not following, tuples where?

22:09 brehaut: dnolen: the result of juxt for instance

22:09 in clojure(script) they are vectors but used more like tuples

22:10 dnolen: brehaut: I think Mori should cater in general to JS usability

22:11 brehaut: in fact where it makes sense to reimplement CLJS functionality for JS usability, it probably makes sense to do so.

22:11 brehaut: if we return an array - then CS or JS destructuring works.

22:11 brehaut: dnolen: that was my thought too

22:12 and all the cljs functions that take seqs and vectors work sensibly when presented an array?

22:12 dnolen: brehaut: you can see this thinking in Mori - we don't use CLJS inc, dec, mod, etc.

22:12 brehaut: yes

22:12 brehaut: right

22:13 so you would also implement identity and constantly from scratch too?

22:13 dnolen: brehaut: only if they aren't already single arity.

22:13 brehaut: CLJS multiy arity fns are costly.

22:14 brehaut: but code generated for single arity CLJS fns is good.

22:15 brehaut: ok cool

22:15 dnolen: i'll send a pull request for juxt and knit, but i think we might want to reconsider using arrays instead of vectors

22:16 dnolen: brehaut: what do you mean reconsider?

22:16 brehaut: dnolen: well at the moment ive just used vectors for tuple-y values

22:17 dnolen: https://github.com/brehaut/mori/blob/master/src/mori.cljs#L105-107

22:17 bbs

22:17 got to run an errand

22:21 * austinh just got a lesson in dependencies, care of Noir

22:23 austinh: I didn't understand why ":refer :all" wasn't doing anything. Turns out that it's because that feature is in Clojure 1.4, which I thought I was using (but didn't know that was a new feature anyway, since I'm new to Clojure), and Noir was silently forcing me to use 1.3.

22:24 I'm happy I was able to figure it out in less than 20 minutes, since there wasn't much immediate info to go on.

23:00 gfredericks: what are the implications of the "Non-relational." markers in the core.logic docstrings?

23:02 jasonjckn: gfredericks: basically you can't pass fresh variables to non-relational goals

23:03 gfredericks: huh. thanks.

23:03 jasonjckn: gfredericks: does that make sense?

23:03 gfredericks: I think so

23:04 jasonjckn: gfredericks: i always thought of run* in terms of how it searched for successful goals

23:04 gfredericks: will it crash if I do or just silently act unexpectedly?

23:04 jasonjckn: i forget what happens

23:04 gfredericks: :) okay

23:04 jasonjckn: ,(run* [q] (== q 3))

23:04 clojurebot: #<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: run* in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>

23:05 jasonjckn: ,(clojure.core.logic/run* [q] (== q 3))

23:05 clojurebot: #<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.core.logic>

23:07 jasonjckn: non-relational goals can be written in pure clojure (project [x] (== true (even? x))

23:08 if you were to pass fresh variable x, there's no way it could bind x to all the even numbers

23:08 gfredericks: I wasn't prepared to have to think about whether any of my variables were fresh at arbitrary points

23:08 jasonjckn: but if x was already bound to some set, it would run this even? test on the entire set

23:08 gfredericks: but I'm still not certain I need the non-relational goals, or that they could solve my problem

23:09 jasonjckn: gfredericks: Well I know of 2 ways to think about it

23:09 the first way is purely in terms of relations from math

23:09 gfredericks: that is more ways than I expected

23:09 jasonjckn: and everythings declarative

23:09 that way is fine, so long as you don't have non-relational goals

23:09 the second way is in terms of a search algorithm

23:10 which is what you need to do for non-relational goals

23:10 the search ordering corresponds to your statement ordering

23:10 So (run* [q] (== q 3) (project [q] (== true (even? q)))

23:11 is fine because the first goal gets executed

23:11 and q is bound to set {3}

23:11 then the project happens and q is bound to {}

23:11 but if you reverse the goals it's not valid anymore

23:11 gfredericks: yeah; it just requires more care

23:11 jasonjckn: I made these models up in my head, so use them with caution :)

23:12 i haven't actually read the implementation of the search

23:13 gfredericks: jasonjckn: that was helpful, thanks.

23:30 Raynes: wtetzner: Dear Sir, thank you for exploding-fish. Evaluation of all of the existing Clojureish URI libraries has lead me to believe that your offering is top notch and for that, I thank you. You are a gentleman and a scholar, and I think we are to be the best of friends.

23:40 echo-area: Hello

23:41 I've simplified the program that reproduces stack overflow a little bit. I'm still trying to simplify it further, but it now can be shared with you to reproduce it. http://pastebin.com/AUJsEV0z <-- Please take a look at it. Does anyone have a clue?

23:44 Raynes: Actually, whoa.

23:44 https://github.com/Raynes/exploding-fish/blob/master/src/org/bovinegenius/exploding_fish/query_string.clj#L33 Association lists? O_O

23:44 amalloy: echo-area: it's exactly what hiredman told you last night. you're building up a big chain of lazy-seqs stacked on top of each other - each call to keep returns a new lazy seq, which has to force the seq below it before it can get anything

23:45 $google clojure stackoverflow dbyrne prime sieve

23:45 lazybot: [recursion - Recursive function causing a stack overflow - Stack ...] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2946764/recursive-function-causing-a-stack-overflow

23:46 echo-area: amalloy: Okay, it maybe my mistake. Currently it happens only at the end of the file, each of the lazy-seq does nothing but trying to get nil. How would I fix it then?

23:47 amalloy: i don't think you read that entire SO answer in under a minute. i suggest you read the article i linked to, understand the problem, and then decide on a solution that's suitable for your use case. i certainly don't know what's right for you

23:48 echo-area: amalloy: If I reduce the input file's lines, there will be no stack overflow. How do you explain this behavior?

23:48 Okay, I didn't see that link when I post these messages.

23:48 Let me read it

23:52 PeregrinePDX: It sounds like something you're doing is holding onto the head of your lazy-seq and you're realizing the entire seq. Multiple times... So you have multiple copies of the 10,000 line file in memory at once. Although I am a clojure newbie so I might be completely wrong and I didn't look at your code.

23:52 amalloy: PeregrinePDX: no

23:53 that leads to a heap overflow, not a stack overflow

23:55 PeregrinePDX: Fair enough. Like I said I'm a newbie.

23:55 echo-area: What's the default max JVM stack size, BTW?

23:55 amalloy: it varies by your JVM implementation. something around 2k is normal, i think

23:55 echo-area: Okay

23:55 amalloy: (2k frames, that is. not sure how many bytes)

23:56 echo-area: Yes, what I meant was too frame size

23:56 Sorry for the ambiguity

23:59 _KY_: Finding a clojure IDE is a game of finding out at which point in time you'd give up on an IDE saying its unusable... 2 down, one more to go =(

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