#clojure log - Oct 01 2011

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0:03 chouser: technomancy: you're not relocating, are you?

0:04 technomancy: chouser: nah, I couldn't give up remote work =)

0:04 jli: technomancy: where do you live?

0:04 technomancy: jli: seattle area

0:05 ibdknox: technomancy: next time I go to seattle I owe you a beer

0:06 technomancy: ibdknox: would love to have you over for a seajure meetup

0:06 tbatchelli: chouser: it sucks to be wondering if your job is stable. On the other hand, if you test the waters you'll realize that there are plenty of interesting opportunities for clojure developers...

0:07 (including working remote)

0:07 ibdknox: technomancy: haha I'll try to come on a first thursday then :)

0:08 dnolen: chouser is nearly clojure developer #1. What other 8 people where here when chouser joined?

0:08 chouser: tbatchelli: thanks. Yeah, I'm not truly worried.

0:10 amalloy: chouser doesn't need to worry, because if something goes wrong he'll just concentrate really hard and the problem will fix itself

0:10 drewr: dnolen: I was around. I still remember occasionally /j #clojure and being the only one :-)

0:11 dnolen: my favorite #clojure irc log, http://clojure-log.n01se.net/date/2008-02-01.html

0:11 danlarkin: pshhhhhhhhh braggart

0:11 chouser: amalloy: ha! what?

0:12 dnolen: I do occasionally doubt the wisdom of putting a link to that on every log page. :-P

0:12 amalloy: explanation probably not forthcoming. just that you are pretty good at making things happen

0:12 dnolen: chouser: you must never remove it. It's a testament to the progress.

0:14 drewr: wowzers.

0:15 cark: any user of auto-complete-mode with clojure-mode on emacs ?

0:15 and slime and the whoole shebang

0:15 scottj: cark: yeah

0:16 jli: cark: yeah. I cherry-picked a ton of stuff from https://github.com/overtone/live-coding-emacs

0:16 works pretty awesome :)

0:16 cark: scottj: do you have trouble with auto-complete crashes when it shows its menu on namespaces ?

0:16 scottj: jli: do you get npe's caused by ac-slime?

0:16 cark: or jli too =P

0:16 technomancy: you really have to wonder what happened to those folks who played with Clojure back in '08, wandered off, and are starting to hear about it everywhere now

0:17 cark: i think it's because it cannot find the docstring on the namespaces

0:17 scottj: cark: I have two problems, I get NPE's sometimes, maybe namespaces not sure, and I have sometimes when the ac menu stays up

0:18 cark: what's NPE ?

0:18 scottj: null pointer exception

0:18 cark: yes i think that's the same thing

0:18 jli: hm, I don't think I've noticed that

0:18 cark: ah nope i get classnotfound

0:18 scottj: I know there were some bugs like this that got fixed a long time ago

0:19 cemerick: dnolen: my log shows: Tac-Tics, chouser, rhickey, LunarCrisis, bgeron, scramflot, Chouser (pre-lowercasing!), albino, and la_mer (me before I normalized to cemerick).

0:19 scottj: cark: have a simple way to reproduce?

0:19 cark: scottj: that's funny i have neither of these problems

0:19 cemerick: That's the only reason why I worded that irc answer to the clojure survey question the way I did :-P

0:20 technomancy: chouser: if you aren't sure whether you'll need a job in the coming months you could always partially apply.

0:20 (sorry)

0:20 cark: scottj : yes, got to your ns form on top of a file, try to autocomplete a partially typed namespace, wait for the mini-hjelp to show up, it crashes

0:20 Zolrath: cark: Yeah I've had that same crash

0:20 danlarkin: someone forgot their instantromshot.com

0:20 cark: Zolrath: any solution to that ?

0:20 jli: technomancy: I'm not sure what game we were playing, but I think you win :)

0:21 technomancy: jli: well I stole the joke from Alex Payne

0:21 which I guess makes it a Scala joke

0:21 ~guards

0:21 clojurebot: SEIZE HIM!

0:21 cemerick: Hey, and albino is still around! Who are you, albino?

0:21 Zolrath: cark: I haven't actually looked into it to fix it, but you it's definitely not just you

0:22 cark: Zolrath: that's aggravating, especially when moving lots of code around

0:22 dnolen: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7618081/what-classes-of-problems-is-clojure-good-bad-at-solving-vis-a-vis-scala

0:22 Zolrath: Yeah, definitely not a fun bug to encounter

0:23 dnolen: technomancy: you caused that ^

0:23 Zolrath: ibdknox: is there any way to bind a pinot event to window? I'm trying to do the equivalent of window.onscroll = function.. but it doesn't seem to work

0:23 cemerick: dnolen: crap, again with that?

0:23 ~scala

0:23 clojurebot: scala is val foo = bar ~-> 45 <~< "Fred" %% x

0:23 cemerick: ~scala

0:23 clojurebot: scala is also<reply>"we are completely screwed on ==." -- seen in #scala

0:23 cemerick: (sorry)

0:24 technomancy: dnolen: odin's beard! how did that happen?

0:24 ibdknox: Zolrath: can't bind to js/window?

0:24 dnolen: technomancy: it's all complected.

0:25 technomancy: wonder how long it will last before getting flagged as flame-bait, subjective, etc.

0:26 scottj: does latest lein have clj 1.3 as default?

0:27 technomancy: scottj: not yet

0:27 1.3 is newer than the latest lein

0:32 Zolrath: ibdknox: Hm, I get g.getAttribute is not a function when I try to bind an alert to the js/window :scroll action

0:34 dnolen: always worth rereading, pertinent concerning releases, http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?AlanKayOnMessaging

0:34 <quote> when ST hit the larger world, it was pretty much taken as "something just to be learned", as though it were Pascal or Algol. </quote>

0:35 ibdknox: Zolrath: hm, I'll take a look

0:36 Zolrath: ibdknox I may be doing it incorrectly but if I do it as I would the other events, no go. Kills the script.

0:37 technomancy: isn't releases vs HEAD (or stability vs change) just the constant academic vs real-world tension over again?

0:37 dnolen: choice <quote> I would say that a system that allowed other metathings to be done in the ordinary course of programming (like changing what inheritance means, or what is an instance) is a bad design. (I believe that systems should allow these things, but the design should be such that there are clear fences that have to be crossed when serious extensions are made.) </quote>

0:37 alandipert_: dnolen: "power, parsimony, AND security of meaning" - i dig it hard

0:38 cemerick: technomancy: straw man tug-of-war?

0:38 technomancy: cemerick: balancing act? =)

0:38 cemerick: tomato, tomahto

0:39 alandipert_: a user choice either way

0:39 ibdknox: Zolrath: I believe you that it doesn't work.

0:39 cemerick: academics love them stable libraries; hare-brained capitalists love that bleeding edge

0:40 technomancy: cemerick: it's all fun and games until someone gets woken up by pager duty

0:40 dnolen: #clojure is a good place.

0:41 ibdknox: full of scary evil people

0:41 :D

0:41 technomancy: clojurebot: you are likely to be eaten by a grue.

0:41 clojurebot: It's greek to me.

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