#clojure log - Jan 03 2011

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0:18 anthony_: I know this is question has a very obvious answer, but I'm stuck. I'm trying to use Compojure for the first time (so it might not even belong here). How can I use a javax.servlet.Servet? It looks like there used to be a run-server function that would accept a servlet, but that's gone.

0:56 amalloy: i'm still using 1.2.0 but i'd like to be future-friendly for a var i'd like to be dynamic-bindable. how do i do that? (def ^{:dynamic true} foo bar) feels right, but i'm not sure if i actually read that anywhere

1:35 auser: what is the '->>' operator called/do?

1:36 qbg: It is a thrush operator

1:36 (->> 1 (* 2) (+ 3)) == (+ (* 1 2) 3)

1:37 I mean (+ (* 2 1) 3)

1:37 Urg

1:37 auser: can't find it in the docs... hmmm

1:37 qbg: (+ 3 (* 2 1))

1:37 ,(clojure.walk/macroexpand-all '(->> 1 (* 2) (+ 3)))

1:37 clojurebot: (+ 3 (* 2 1))

1:38 auser: not sure I understand...

1:38 hm

1:38 _na_ka_na_: amalloy: good point about being future friendly, I'm also in the same bucket, I would like to ask a broader question - if something runs with 1.3, will it also run with 1.2, w/o any code changes (except classpath changes ofc)

1:38 qbg: It makes the previous form be the last element of the next list

1:38 auser: ahh

1:39 qbg: Useful for making functional operations look sequential

1:39 tomoj: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/-%3E%3E#example_191

1:39 _na_ka_na_: auser, http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/-%3E%3E

1:39 tomoj: hmm, should've unfolded the iterate

1:39 auser: awesome! thanks _na_ka_na_

1:40 amalloy: &(macroexpand-all '(->> (range) (filter even?) (take 10) (map #(* 5 %)) (reduce +)))

1:40 sexpbot: ⟹ (reduce + (map (fn* [p1__8789#] (* 5 p1__8789#)) (take 10 (filter even? (range)))))

1:41 tomoj: there :)

1:41 ooh, adding a sum on the end would be good too

1:41 amalloy: auser: that's sorta a typical use: you're performing a long sequence of operations on a single value, and it's more legible as a sequence of steps than as a nested operation

1:41 tomoj: i did

1:41 auser: I see... that could definitely clean up some of my code

1:41 tomoj: I meant in the example on clojuredocs

1:41 amalloy: ah

1:42 tomoj: oh, and (iterate inc 0) is outdated now..

1:43 amalloy: tomoj: i assumed we'd had (range) forever; is it new as of 1.2.0 or something?

1:43 tomoj: it's recent

1:44 not sure when

1:44 amalloy: &(-> range var meta :since)

1:44 sexpbot: ⟹ nil

1:44 amalloy: &(-> range var meta)

1:44 sexpbot: ⟹ {:ns #<Namespace clojure.core>, :name range, :file "clojure/core.clj", :line 2246, :arglists ([] [end] [start end] [start end step]), :added "1.0", :doc "Returns a lazy seq of nums from start (inclusive) to end\n (exclusive), by step, where start defaults to 0, step to 1, and end\n to infinity."}

1:44 amalloy: hm. it claims 1.0, but i don't think that's really trustworthy

1:46 tomoj: a55df92f

1:46 april

1:47 _na_ka_na_: hey guys how is this example of ->> ... (->> (read) (eval) (println) (while true)) !

1:47 make your own repl

1:47 amalloy: cute

1:47 tomoj: you can shave some parens

1:48 _na_ka_na_: ya but they're required in general .. (->> read eval println (while true))

1:48 amalloy: _na_ka_na_: read still needs parens

1:48 _na_ka_na_: oh ya

1:49 that's why I prefer to use () always

1:49 can I add this to clojuredocs ?

1:49 amalloy: i think it's a great example; to be more repl-like i'd like to use loop instead of while

1:49 _na_ka_na_: hmm

1:49 tomoj: think you just need an account

1:49 amalloy: but it's a little tricky to manage

1:54 _na_ka_na_: (->> (read) (eval) (println) (#(loop [] % (recur))))

1:55 not so pretty

1:56 how about with this.. (defmacro loop-forever [& body] `(loop [] ~@body (recur)))

1:58 amalloy: _na_ka_na_: if you're going to define a loop-forever macro, it might as well use the more legible while true

1:59 _na_ka_na_: amalloy: I was just going with the theme of the L in REPL

2:00 amalloy: _na_ka_na_: sure, i was just saying that if the final form will look like (->> ... (loop-forever)) it doesn't matter much whether loop-forever's implementation starts with an L; but of course it's fine if it does :)

2:00 _na_ka_na_: amalloy: is its probably a better example for -> .. coz ->> are generally used for sequences

2:01 amalloy: _na_ka_na_: true

3:10 auser: interesting

3:11 sorry, wrong window

3:12 Licenser: ,prmomg everypmne

3:12 clojurebot: java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: prmomg in this context

3:12 Licenser: orning I mean

3:16 amalloy: Licenser: i moved the keys on your keyboard while you were sleeping

3:42 ddudey: i'm trying to create a clojars jar with native-deps but they're not extracting correctly. Has anyone got any experience?

4:12 LauJensen: I think all the bits are in for ClojureQL 1.0 now, so after a few reviews of the code I expected to release within the next 24 hours or so

4:13 ejackson: nice on LauJensen

4:23 ossareh: LauJensen: clojureql being some sql interface?

4:23 LauJensen: ossareh: http://bestinclass.dk/index.clj/2010/11/clojureql--1.0.0-now-in-beta.html

4:25 ossareh: looks sweet - part of the manly CMS?

4:26 LauJensen: No the manly CMS is cooking up the website for ClojureQL :)

4:27 But I assure you, both libraries are quite manly, yet elegant!

4:33 ossareh: nice - definitely looking forward to seeing the CMS

4:34 what is the secret to getting dispatch to work on multimethods being fed records?

4:34 (defmulti some-fn class) (defmethod some-fn ???? :foo)

4:34 what is ??? ?

4:36 I'm consistenly getting "No method in multimethod 'rec-test' for dispatch value: class surveyengine.storage.Foo"

4:37 oh, it works - sorry. I'd been slimed.

5:20 Licenser: amalloy_: I'm in the office I am constantly sleeping

5:53 neotyk: Morning everyone, Happy New Year!

6:10 LauJensen: neotyk: Morning :)

7:27 no_mind: Someone please explain me this code http://pastebin.ca/2037667 . I am confused on the map part. Map function takes two argument but here only one is passed and yet no error ?

7:28 Chousuke: no_mind: there are two arguments

7:28 no_mind: (map ref (take 5 (repeat 0)))

7:29 other than that, it's broken code because there is no argument vector for let :P

7:29 or binding vector

7:29 no_mind: Chousuke, I copied it from somewhere. If I do a println instead of ch it works.

7:30 Chousuke: instead of let you mean?

7:30 no_mind: But I cant understand 2 arguments. Is ref considered an function arg here ?

7:30 Chousuke: yes

7:30 no_mind: Chousuke, yes

7:30 Chousuke: it's the function

7:30 no_mind: the let doesn't work because it's missing the vector form

7:31 it's supposed to be (let [ch (zipmap ...)])

7:31 no_mind: ok

7:31 Chousuke: I suppose it looks like a single argument because there's no space between ref and the second argument

7:32 so you might think it's a function call or something :P

7:34 no_mind: yup, I thought it is a function call :)

7:35 Chousuke: function calls start with a (

7:35 :)

10:21 jfields: Does clojure have a fn that does this:

10:21 (defn apply-while [f-to-apply init-val pred boundry-val]

10:21 (loop [v init-val]

10:21 (if (pred v boundry-val)

10:21 v

10:21 (recur (f-to-apply v)))))

10:22 seems like something generic that should already be there, and I don't want to reinvent the wheel. :)

10:23 opqdonut_: you can use iterate and take-while

10:23 pdk: so the idea is

10:23 opqdonut_: for the same effect

10:23 pdk: it returns the same list but applies f-to-apply on the values in the list that meet the predicate

10:23 opqdonut_: ,(take-while (partial > 5) (iterate inc 2))

10:23 clojurebot: (2 3 4)

10:24 jfields: actually, I'm using it for, (apply-while dec 5 < 3), which returns 2

10:24 opqdonut_: add a call to last if you only want the last element

10:24 jfields: gotcha

10:24 opqdonut_: but of course the clojure implementation doesn't roll out those sequence operations

10:24 so your loop version should be faster

10:25 jfields: I guess it's poorly named too, it should be apply-until... anyway. thanks for the help.

10:31 leafw: has anybody noticed the bug regarding boxing/unboxing with nested loops?

10:32 http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/1af34b3ab3779460

10:32 Allen wrote a nice minimal example

10:51 dnolen: leafw: I don't think loop can return primitives.

10:52 leafw: dnolen: aha, so that is the issue. I thought loop was like a let? Can't let return a primitive either?

10:53 dnolen: leafw: I doubt it. But not sure.

10:53 leafw: only fns can return primitives as far as I know.

10:53 chouser: err

10:53 Chousuke: hm. loop and let should work with primitives

10:53 chouser: which version of clojure are we talking about?

10:54 leafw: git master

10:55 let can, I just tested it: (let [i (let [k (int 0)] k)] (inc i))

10:55 doesn't give any warning .. not sure if the test is correct though

10:55 chouser: (expression-info '(loop [a 1] a)) ;=> {:class long, :primitive? true}

10:55 leafw: right, bad test

10:56 chouser: (expression-info '(let [i (let [k (int 0)] k)] (inc i))) ;=> {:class long, :primitive? true}

10:57 (expression-info '(let [i (let [k (int 0)] k)] (+ (Integer. 5) i))) ;=> {:class java.lang.Number, :primitive? false}

10:58 leafw: chouser: then why: (loop [b (int 0)] (let [c (loop [a 1] a)] (if false (recur (inc c)))))

10:58 ... igves a boxing warning?

10:58 Auto-boxing loop arg: b

11:04 chouser: leafw: hm, it may indeed be a bug.

11:05 (expression-info '(loop [a 1] a)) ;=> {:class long, :primitive? true}

11:05 (expression-info '(let [c (loop [a 1] a)] c)) ;=> nil

11:06 ...indicating that the compiler doesn't know the type of that 'let', and so will treat it as Object

11:06 leafw: chouser: uf, ok, so I am not allucinating

11:06 chouser: no autobox warning for: (loop [b 0] (let [c (long (loop [a 1] a))] (recur (inc c))))

11:06 leafw: chouser: I'd appreciate if you file it.

11:07 yeah sure, but that cast should not be needed, as far as let and loop are supposed to work

11:07 chouser: right

11:16 SergeyD: Hi, is pre and post conditions on protocols are planned? Right now I can't make it work neither in protocol declaration nor in protocol implementation in deftype. I'm using Clojure 1.2

11:17 It is mentioned on http://www.assembla.com/wiki/show/clojure/Protocols in "Old ideas/scratchpad", that's all I have found on this topic

11:18 Sorry for grammar errors :)

11:20 chouser: good question. I haven't heard of any concrete plans, but it does seem like something that would be useful, and I can't think of any techincal reason why it couldn't be done.

11:23 SergeyD: I see, thanks Chouser

11:24 leafw: a quicksort in java for a double[] and associated int[] array that keeps track of the indices: https://gist.github.com/763139 -- takes about 15x a java version of it (java: 0.00568 ms; clj: 0.088 ms)

11:24 type hints are in, and all math is primitive. What could account for clojure being slower?

11:27 SergeyD: leafw, that is for 1.3, right?

11:28 leafw: SergeyD: yes

11:28 I tried making the functions static, or turning them into macros: no improvement.

11:28 the wya it's written, I'd think it should run as fast as java.

11:30 qbg: Maybe using aset-double and aset-int would help?

11:30 chouser: have you tried unchecked math? I'm not sure what Java does by default.

11:30 leafw: chouser: java does unchecked math

11:30 is there are atrigger for unchecked math, or should one use unchecked-add, aetc. ?

11:31 qbg: *unchecked-math*

11:31 a_strange_guy: you can set! *unchecked-math* to tru i think

11:31 leafw: ok,trying that

11:31 doesn't exist ... not in git master

11:32 qbg: Are you up to date?

11:32 leafw: from yesterday, yes

11:33 qbg: You are using https://github.com/clojure/clojure right?

11:33 leafw: url = git://github.com/clojure/clojure.git

11:34 qbg: You ran ant?

11:34 leafw: I do

11:34 qbg: Hmm...

11:35 leafw: it generated clojure-1.3.0-master-SNAPSHOT.jar

11:36 qbg: Here is the commit that added it: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/commit/aa7d26336faff6ccc65e4405e28e471221f35fc4

11:39 leafw: adding unchecked-inc-int for inc and -dec- for dec reduced from 0.088 to 0.056, still ~10x slower

11:40 abedra: cemerick: do you still need access to build.clojure.org?

11:40 cemerick: I am locking down the machine

11:40 cemerick: because hudson will start doing the clojure releases

11:40 leafw: qbg: I have that commit, strange, ... I'll do a clean again

11:41 cemerick: abedra: no, you can drop me

11:41 abedra: cemerick: ok cool, if you need ssh access again just let me knows

11:41 know

11:41 cemerick: sure, thanks

11:42 a_strange_guy: leafw: your code compiles down to primitive calls on my clojure

11:42 cemerick: abedra: FYI: the gpg key should probably be backed up somewhere else

11:42 abedra: cemerick: agreed

11:42 a_strange_guy: checked it with a java disassembler

11:42 cemerick: in addition to whatever regular backups are going on, that is

11:43 abedra: cemerick: I have a list of things that are set for a backup strategy

11:43 I just have to pick or setup a service for it

11:43 right now contegix is doing backups of the machines

11:44 but that's not quite good enough for things

11:45 leafw: a_strange_guy, qbg : I recompiled, speed still 10x slower than java

11:45 qbg: How many times are you running the code?

11:45 leafw: a_strange_guy: indeed there aren't any boxing/unboxing calls

11:46 qbg: I am testing with 10x

11:46 dotimes 10

11:46 qbg: Try a larger number

11:46 a_strange_guy: of corse it will be much slower than the java version

11:46 your arrays are too small

11:46 the JIT wont kick in

11:47 leafw: a_strange_guy: ok, trying with random array with 100,000 elements

11:48 a_strange_guy: the compiler compiles everything down to static function calls

11:49 those are just easy to inline, but won't be inlined automatically

11:53 SergeyD: leaf, use the code like: (dotimes [_ 5] (println (time (dotimes [_ 100000] (inc 3)))))

11:55 chouser: leafw: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-701

11:55 SergeyD: BTW, I wonder if JIT can find out that the result of every iteration above is not used and omit that call?

11:56 In that case more complex timing code should be used, something like accumulating the result of every iteration

11:58 leafw: chouser: thanks

11:59 a_strange_guy: SergeyD: the jit cant do that because it must call .getVarRoot on a var each call

11:59 and the root of a var is marked volatile

12:00 chouser: a_strange_guy: are you sure that's still true?

12:00 a_strange_guy: chouser: not 100% 'ly

12:00 * a_strange_guy reads Var.java

12:01 a_strange_guy: chouser: still volatile

12:05 ejackson: chouser: is there an obvious solution for the case, when using fill-queue, when the return value of filler-func needs to be returned ? In my case filler-func returns a client that I need later to affect requests.

12:09 SergeyD: leafw, it's ~400ms for 100000 iterations on my computer. How did you test the java version?

12:11 chouser: ejackson: when filler-func returns, the nothing else can be added to the queue. How can it's return value affect later requests?

12:12 ejackson: chouser: its a call into a java lib (that I don't control), that starts its own thread.

12:12 leafw: SergeyD: I have my own implementation, but I think it has an error in it. I am looking at it at the moment.

12:14 ejackson: you call a function passing it a callback (i'm using fill), it constructs a client, starts it in another thread, and returns a reference to it. I'm using filler-func as the call to this constructor function.

12:14 leafw: SergeyD: the clj version runs in 24 ms here for 100000 elements :)

12:15 ejackson: chouser: oh, i get you, sorry. dumb.

12:16 bmh: Does clojure have a construct like scheme's boxes?

12:16 ejackson: chouser: I'll be on my way... rethink. Thanks.

12:17 qbg: bmh: atoms perhaps?

12:17 Basically any of the reference types

12:18 bmh: wonderful

12:18 I'm implementing embedded planar graphs and it would be nice not to route everything through a hash table.

12:19 kumarshantanu: is anybody using Clojure 1.3.0 Alpha-4 as a Maven dependency yet? can you tell me me the artifactId etc?

12:20 SergeyD: kumarshantanu, this is working in my leiningen file: "[org.clojure/clojure "1.3.0-master-20101220.130227-7"]"

12:21 leafw: SergeyD: longer arrays do make the JIT kick in: 10^7 random doubles, java: 171 ms, clj 307 ms (last of 10 runs)

12:21 SergeyD: still a factor of 2x, but far from 15x that I saw at the beginning

12:22 10^6 sorry, one million

12:23 so unless one runs a large array first, small arrays will get sorted slowly. Strange prospect.

12:23 kumarshantanu: SergeyD: thanks it's working for me too

12:28 SergeyD: leafw: JIT will compile small arrays too if you run it 100000 times

12:28 a_strange_guy: yah, but creating array in clojure is more expensive than in java

12:28 ^yeah

12:29 leafw: SergeyD: we hope :)

12:29 I wait for the day that clojure can really perform as fast as java when it comes to math. It's come a long way, and it looks like within months that may happen.

12:30 SergeyD: a_strange_guy: that's true

12:30 leafw: I don't hope, I have just measured :)

12:31 a_strange_guy: leafw: I think java will still be faster, mostly because you can use ints and not longs

12:31 and the overhead to fetch a fn from a var still exists

12:33 leafw: a_strange_guy: in a 64-bit machine, int vs long may not make much of a difference

12:34 a_strange_guy: there's always macros. Once the code looks nice, one can macro it to death. Never try to edit it again.

12:34 a_strange_guy: or define fn as static. Seems to make a big difference.

12:35 a_strange_guy: ^:static is gone for now

12:35 leafw: it;s a no-op ?

12:35 one can still write (defn afn ^:static [] ^:void ... )

12:35 the compiler does not complain.

12:36 a_strange_guy: yeah, but it's a no-op

12:36 static is replaced by non-dynamic vars by default

12:37 $(fn ^:a-unneeded-annotation ^:and-another self [] nil)

12:37 &(fn ^:a-unneeded-annotation ^:and-another self [] nil)

12:37 sexpbot: ⟹ #<sandbox6382$eval8816$self__8817 sandbox6382$eval8816$self__8817@1ab2399>

12:37 a_strange_guy: the compiler -never- complains xD

12:38 yeah, littering your code with macros can produce identical performance to java already

12:39 &(doc definline)

12:39 sexpbot: ⟹ "Macro ([name & decl]); Experimental - like defmacro, except defines a named function whose body is the expansion, calls to which may be expanded inline as if it were a macro. Cannot be used with variadic (&) args."

12:39 leafw: a_strange_guy: interesting. Like a macro, but clean like a function

12:39 thnaks for the pointer

12:40 chouser: and so fun to exploit

12:40 a_strange_guy: is there some reason why you can't have variadic inlines?

12:43 qbg: Would variadic inlines be very useful?

12:43 leafw: hum, definline doesn't work for me: java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Symbol cannot be cast to java.lang.Number ... in fn that takes as arguments: (definline aswap! [^doubles vals ^ints idxs ^long x ^long y] ...)

12:44 chouser: no point in hinting the args

12:44 hm, well, maybe there is. But I'm not surprised it doesn't work.

12:49 leafw: chouser: without the hints, the compiler warns about reflection

12:49 so it doesn't work by design, and thus I dont understand how to use definline, or is it an error?

12:50 chouser: definline is old. primitive-hinted fn args are new. I'm not sure the two have been thought about together by anyone.

12:50 leafw: chouser: so definline is up for a revision.

12:50 chouser: or removal perhaps

12:50 rak85: hi, guys

12:51 is there any function that returns a boolean if a string starts with some substring?

12:51 like (starts-with? "aba" "abaca")

12:51 chouser: ,(.startsWith "abaca" "aba")

12:51 clojurebot: true

12:51 rak85: thanks!

12:51 leafw: ,(.startsWith "abaca" "aba")

12:51 clojurebot: true

12:52 leafw: oops :)

13:33 AWizzArd: A starts-with that works on all sequences would be interesting, taking a comparator.

13:37 chouser: (defn starts-with [c x y] (every? zero? (map c x y)))

13:37 amalloy: AWizzArd: (fn [a b] (every? identity (map = a b)))

13:38 chouser: actually neither of our solutions is right

13:38 if the starts-with sequence is longer than the sequence to test against, map returns prematurely

13:39 chouser: good point

13:40 amalloy: (fn [a b] (= b (take (count b) a))) is neither pretty nor flexible, but...

13:43 chouser: still has false positives in the case you described, doesn't it?

13:45 amalloy: chouser: i don't think so. b is the sequence to test against; = is doing a strict comparison of the whole list

13:45 ((fn [a b] (= b (take (count b) a))) [1 2] [1 2 3])

13:45 &((fn [a b] (= b (take (count b) a))) [1 2] [1 2 3])

13:45 sexpbot: ⟹ false

13:46 amalloy: &((fn [a b] (= b (take (count b) a))) [1 2 3] [1 2])

13:46 sexpbot: ⟹ true

13:46 chouser: oh, right. very good

14:42 gfrlog: anybody had any trouble with clojureql recently?

14:42 LauJensen: gfrlog: no trouble, why ?

14:43 gfrlog: my project won't compile all of a sudden, and I haven't been mucking with my clojureql code

14:43 it gets a classNotFound clojureql.core.Relation

14:43 LauJensen: You're using lein?

14:43 gfrlog: yeah

14:43 I've also seen it complain that where* is unbound

14:43 it actually does complete "lein uberjar" successfully

14:43 LauJensen: lein doesn't handle protocols well. technomancy has an updated prepared. Try cake in the meantime

14:44 gfrlog: but on executing the jar, or running "lein repl" I see the error

14:44 okay

14:44 are protocols in clojureql new?

14:44 LauJensen: gfrlog: Been there since day 1

14:44 gfrlog: hmm

14:44 strange that this popped up now then

14:44 oh well

14:44 LauJensen: technomancy: Got an ETA on that release yet? This comes off a little too often :(

14:44 technomancy: gfrlog: the latest lein should fix this; you can set :clean-non-project-classes false in project.clj in the mean time

14:44 gfrlog: thank you

14:44 technomancy: I pushed out the fix a few days ago

14:44 LauJensen: gfrlog: could you try that please and let me know?

14:45 gfrlog: I will do that right now

14:45 LauJensen: technomancy: great- you keep an impressive pace :)

14:45 gfrlog: technomancy: thanks

14:45 LauJensen: I will try his clean-non-project-classes arg first

14:45 LauJensen: sure, let us know how it goes

14:45 technomancy: if you have any trouble on 1.4.2 with AOT and protocols plz to report on https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/issue/141

14:46 danlarkin: Anyone have any luck using native-deps-1.0.5, lein-1.4 and lein-swank-1.2.1? lein-swank throws an exception when I try and start it when I have native deps installed

14:46 technomancy: I believe it's fixed, but I don't use protocols or AOT myself, so I haven't verified it on the field.

14:46 danlarkin: you're not using the "lein-swank" dependency itself, right?

14:46 I mean, it should be swank-clojure

14:47 danlarkin: technomancy: yeah, sorry, swank-clojure-1.2.1

14:48 technomancy: danlarkin: there was a thread about it few weeks ago on the lein mailing list you could check

14:49 gfrlog: LauJenson: after changing the project.clj, I immediatly still got the classNotFound exception; after switching to beta-2 I now get the where* is unbound errer again

14:49 danlarkin: I see the one re: lein-1.4, but not one involving swank

14:49 ossareh: is it weird to (let [some-ref (ref nil) _ (while (is-nil ref) populate-ref-fn)] @some-ref) ? I need a loop that continues until it passes and want to return the value. previously i've used loop/recur for this.

14:50 gfrlog: LauJenson: I'll try the new version of lein

14:51 technomancy: could you remind me what the native readline package that lein uses for "lein repl" is? You told me once and I've had no luck googling for that conversation

14:51 LauJensen: gfrlog: Im not called Jenson :)

14:51 technomancy: gfrlog: that's rlwrap

14:51 gfrlog: technomancy: thanks!

14:51 chouser: ossareh: yeah, that's probably not right, unless you're actually doing multithreaded work.

14:51 gfrlog: LauJensen: By squinting at the bright yellow font my client uses for names, I can tell you're correct; pardon me

14:52 ossareh: chouser: no threads involved - at this point. definitely feels weird - I guess I want a let-while or something

14:52 chouser: ossareh: loop/recur would be better, or perhaps take-while

14:52 LauJensen: gfrlog: No worries. I find it amusing that so many americans spell my name like they would say it

14:53 ossareh: chouser: or when-let ?

14:53 gfrlog: LauJensen: yeah; my pronunciation for Jensen is about the same as Jenson

14:53 ossareh: chouser: actually, no. I'll stick with loop/recur. Cheers.

14:53 chouser: sure, when-let, but you'd still need to loop

14:54 gfrlog: leiningen is the top google hit for its name; so much for that story about ants

14:55 LauJensen: The story is epic

14:59 micahmartin: Is there a way to define a function "get" such that I don't get this warning? "WARNING: get already refers to: #'clojure.core/get"

15:00 gfrlog: I think cake will probably have a harder time achieving the same google-status

15:00 cemerick: micahmartin: add a :refer-clojure slot to your ns form

15:01 micahmartin: see: http://clojure.github.com/clojure/clojure.core-api.html#clojure.core/ns

15:02 micahmartin: cemerick: that worked like a charm... Thanks!

15:03 gfrlog: I'm looking at the readme page for cake, and it talks about installing a gem and yet doesn't mention ruby anywhere. Is that a little weird?

15:06 danlarkin: technomancy: found it -- you fixed it in leiningen master 78384ba6

15:06 LauJensen: gfrlog: Which distro are you on?

15:08 gfrlog: ubuntu 10.04

15:08 test

15:09 LauJensen: I think I am doing okay now

15:09 LauJensen: gfrlog: Okay. Otherwise just install ruby/gems, then sudo gems install cake. Its quite simple

15:09 gfrlog: LauJenses: Updating lein seems to have worked

15:10 LauJensen: Ehm. Its not Jenses either :) You could try ERC, it has name completion :)

15:11 bobo_: dont think gems install cake works in ubuntu

15:11 technomancy: yeah, gem is pretty screwed up on ubuntu

15:11 bobo_: depends on how you installed the gem thingy

15:11 LauJensen: really? I think I recall seeing it working. Also works on Windows

15:12 bobo_: i think the apt-get installed gem stuff did something weird. didnt work for me, and i saw more people complaining

15:12 technomancy: it breaks self-update and puts bin wrappers in inaccessible places

15:13 LauJensen: ninjudd: Can you submit patch for ubuntu please? the linux noobs are hurting

15:13 technomancy: I've bugged them about it. they are not interested. =(

15:13 apparently working gems are not FHS-compliant or something.

15:14 LauJensen: technomancy: 'they' ?

15:14 * technomancy is glad to not be a rubygems maintainer anymore

15:14 technomancy: LauJensen: the debian ruby team

15:14 LauJensen: oh ok

15:14 technomancy: so now everyone just says "whatever you do, don't use apt-get for ruby" which just pisses them off more.

15:15 bobo_: yeh its not just cake that doesnt work

15:15 its ehm, everything :-p

15:15 LauJensen: Well. I guess Ubuntu in itself is a temporary OS that you use before moving on to more manly distros, so its okay I guess

15:17 rak85: is there any way to write (not (= 1 2)) ?

15:17 chouser: (not= 1 2)

15:17 rak85: something like (!= 1 2)

15:17 chouser: thanks

15:20 how can I check if a string has some substring? something like (contains? "asdf" "sd")

15:21 i have found

15:22 chouser: ,(<= 0 (.indexOf "asdf" "sd"))

15:22 clojurebot: true

15:22 rak85: (.contains "asdf" "sdf")

15:22 chouser: ah, nice!

15:22 rak85: chouser: thanks for your solution!

15:22 chouser: note also (re-find #"sd" "asdf")

15:31 qbg: Adding lexical scope to my syntax-rules lib was nasty

15:35 cemerick: qbg: glad to see you get such a positive response on the ML

15:36 qbg: I might suggest that you mail the clojure-dev list and offer up syntax-rules as a contrib library, if you are so willing.

15:37 qbg: cemerick: dnolan suggested that I while ago

15:37 I mailed in my CA a week ago

15:37 Haven't heard anything though

15:38 amalloy: ossareh: (loop [v nil] (or v (recur (try-again v))))?

15:39 or (drop-while (complement acceptable?) (iterate try-again initial-val))

15:39 cemerick: qbg: I don't think there's a notification system; you just get added to a list :-)

15:40 qbg: I don't see my name on http://clojure.org/contributing yet

15:42 cemerick: qbg: In any case, starting that thread now wouldn't hurt anything, assuming it's something you're open to.

15:42 qbg: Just applied for the clojure dev group

15:57 auser: I definitely have a very esoteric question... I'll see if I can functionally address it... I have an object that I'm creating and serializing, but on deserialization, I get an error 'clojure.core$bytes cannot be cast to [B' I've pasted the functional code here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/118246

15:57 any help would be awesoe

15:57 qbg: sounds like you are trying to use a function as an array

15:58 amalloy: auser: qpg took the words out of my mouth

15:58 ohpauleez: yeah

15:58 qbg: (with-open [bais (java.io.ByteArrayInputStream. bytes)

15:58 That line

15:58 auser: interesting...

15:58 qbg: Maybe you meant object?

15:58 auser: I'd like to convert it to an object

15:58 yeah

15:59 amalloy: auser: you'll have to try harder to come up with an esoteric question :)

15:59 qbg: Also, what is up with the docstring style?

15:59 auser: damn, I thought I had a better shot at the esoteric question

16:00 what do you mean qbg, just a string?

16:00 qbg: (defn- foo "docstring" [...] ...) works also

16:01 auser: yeah, i kinda like that :doc in there

16:01 but I can change that

16:01 qbg: Not very idiomatic

16:01 auser: fair enough

16:02 paudo: hi

16:07 abedra: cemerick: pushed your membership through on clojure-dev

16:09 cemerick: abedra: Thanks; tinkering with the thought of gmail-only for clojure communications. :-)

16:18 auser: hm... can you cast a class or an instance of the class to a java.io.ObjectOutputStream? more investigation is necessary it seems

16:20 qbg: You shouldn't need to do casting

16:21 (eval (.read (read-string ois))) looks wrong

16:22 You want to be calling .readObject on ois

16:24 deserialize should probably take a string s, bytes should be (.getBytes s), and (eval (.read ...)) should probably be (.readObject ois)

16:25 And (str (.toByteArray ...)) in serialize should probably be (String. (.toByteArray ...))

16:33 auser: nm, I think I got it

16:33 yep qbg that did it

16:35 you rock, thanks qbg

16:47 abedra: cemerick: that's what I do

16:47 cemerick: abedra: it'll either be that or I'll bite the bullet and start running mail through cemerick.com

16:48 though I don't know if I have the chutzpah to match up with me@ the way fogus does ;-)

16:48 TobiasRaeder: hey :0

16:49 Anyone using cake and not having an inferior-lisp buffer in emacs aswell? Got a little problem with that

16:49 abedra: cemerick: NO don't go there

16:50 cemerick: Spend your time somewhere useful

16:50 cemerick: trust me

16:50 cemerick: abedra: oh, I wouldn't run a mail server myself!

16:50 abedra: cemerick: the day google offered apps for personal domains is the day I shut it all off

16:50 cemerick: abedra: or do you object to vanity domains in general?

16:51 abedra: cemerick: I don't

16:51 cemerick: I have aaronbedra.com

16:51 cemerick: I'd probably use rackspace mail for it if I were to go that way.

16:51 abedra: cemerick: I have just always used my gmail account for lists because it was my first google identity

16:51 cemerick: Their web interface is *horrible*, but they've not gone down once and I'm grandfathered into a pretty sweet pricing scheme from the webmail.us days.

16:52 abedra: cemerick: running google apps for your domain is FREE

16:52 cemerick: except for the whole google owns your data thing

16:53 cemerick: I got an android phone a few months ago. I think I'm screwed in that department at this point. :-(

18:46 ninjudd: TobiasRaeder: i personally don't use cake inside an inferior-lisp buffer, but you may want to ask in the #cake.clj channel

18:47 AWizzArd: OT but interesting: http://www.kurzweilai.net/womens-study-finds-longevity-means-getting-just-enough-sleep

18:49 Somelauw: Is there a != operator?

18:49 AWizzArd: yes: not=

18:49 ninjudd: bobo_: what issue were you having with 'gem install cake' on Ubuntu? i just tried on karmic and it worked fine. was the issue on lucid?

18:49 AWizzArd: ,(not= 10 20)

18:49 clojurebot: true

18:51 Somelauw: Okay, it was hard to find that function. But thanks.

18:51 raek: there's also if-not and when-not, that might be more compact sometimes

18:53 companion_cube: what is the best clojure book for a functional programmer accustomed to static typing ?

19:08 pdk: you just might want to pick up any ol general lisp book if the typing system is your issue

19:12 companion_cube: thanks, but in fact i'm more looking for a quite exhaustive book which would preferably expect the reader to know functional programming (typing is not a big issue)

19:13 pdk: i'm not sure if there are any clojure books yet that assume advanced knowledge of functional coding coming in

19:14 practical clojure and programming clojure at least introduce the concept at the beginning so

19:14 if you branch out you could read graham's on lisp i guess

19:14 companion_cube: ok, thanks

19:14 pdk: also take note that clojure's typing system is also strong

19:16 it's also probably best to have some advance knowledge of java and the java api as well though not everything you do will need it

19:16 and clojure borrows cl's system of letting you put optional type hints on things like function arguments

19:17 raek: ,((fn [^String x] x) 1)

19:17 clojurebot: 1

19:17 raek: type hints don't prevent you from passing a value of a different type

19:18 they are for helping the compiler to pick the right method when doing java interop

19:19 pdk: yeah there are some wrinkles in the picture bridging between java's static world and clojure's ideally dynamic world

19:44 devn: hey all

19:45 joshua__: hi

19:45 devn: am i missing something or should i not be using clojars for ring releases?

19:47 * devn never knows which release on clojars to use :\

19:57 joshua__: devn, I don't know what other people are doing but I use [ring/ring-jetty-adapter "0.3.1"] as that was what was mentioned in the compojure guide that I used. Hopefully someone else can answer your question more fully.

20:33 Derander_: LauJensen: https://github.com/LauJensen/clojureql I'm trying to follow this pseudo-intro and query a users table. I'm getting an "unable to find Driver for ..." error though.

20:33 Do I need to install the mysql driver for jdbc?

20:36 No suitable driver found for jdbc:mysql://127.0.0.1:3307/database_name (using correct db name)

20:47 amalloy: Derander_: yes. but it's available in maven, so you can just add it as a dep in project.clj

20:47 Derander_: amalloy: alright

20:48 amalloy: Derander_: http://mvnrepository.com/artifact/mysql/mysql-connector-java/5.1.6

21:49 zakwilson: http://functionaljobs.com/ <-- the front page here suggests Akamai is or will be using Clojure. Anyone know if there's truth to that?

21:51 amalloy: &(into-array [nil])

21:51 sexpbot: java.lang.NullPointerException

21:51 amalloy: is this desired behavior?

22:00 drewr: zakwilson: they sponsored, and were recruiting at, the conj, so I would say yes

22:01 danlarkin: zakwilson: I know it to be true

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