#clojure log - Nov 07 2010

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0:00 wooby: same here :/

0:00 amalloy: nimred: http://riddell.us/ClojureSwankLeiningenWithEmacsOnLinux.html should work, but it will be more involved than necessary since it has you building everything from source

0:00 nimred: shouldn't http://clojure.pastebin.com/mvqjB3BB settings be OK ?

0:02 hiredman: you should follow the instructions in the swank clojure readme

0:02 amalloy: nimred: i suspect you may have to put slime before swank-clojure

0:02 hiredman: I have yet to see any blog post on the subject that is not hilariously out of date

0:03 nimred: hiredman i did but (require 'swank-clojure-autoload) didn't work :/

0:04 hiredman: nimred: that isn't in the readme anywhere

0:04 https://github.com/technomancy/swank-clojure

0:07 nimred: amalloy ok loading slime before swank-clojure as you suggested made emacs starting without any error

0:33 tonyl: ping?

0:33 clojurebot: PONG!

0:34 amalloy: tonyl: pinging anyone in particular, or just clojurebot?

0:34 tonyl: just clojurebot, i do that everytime I join the channel

0:34 hiredman: ~#1

0:34 clojurebot: 1. One man's constant is another man's variable.

0:36 Adamant: ~#42

0:36 clojurebot: 42. You can measure a programmer's perspective by noting his attitude on the continuing vitality of FORTRAN.

0:36 Adamant: ~#34

0:36 clojurebot: 34. The string is a stark data structure and everywhere it is passed there is much duplication of process. It is a perfect vehicle for hiding information.

0:36 Adamant: \

1:40 amalloy: there doesn't seem to be a convenient way to conj something to both the front and back of a sequence. i assume that's because at least one of those operations will be expensive?

1:19 tobiassp1: any idea how to fix " No implementation of method: :make-reader of protocol: irc://irc.freenode.net/#'clojure.java.io/IOFactory found for class: nil " when running lein uberjar ? <— total clj n00b

1:21 amalloy: um. this is going to be pretty hard with no idea what's in your source files, tobiassp1

1:22 could you provide a link? particularly to any source file that includes "freenode"

1:23 tobiassp1: amally: just a main with println hello world

1:23 literally just newed the project and added the defn to the projectname.clj

1:24 amalloy: hm. maybe something is wrong with my irc client

1:25 is the error, in fact, "protocol: hash, quote, clojure.java.io/IOFactory?" i think my irc client turned that into a link to an irc channel

1:26 tobiassp1: amalloy: http://pastebin.com/KazycWXM

1:27 amalloy: hrm. are you sure about that? core.clj and project.clj seem to be switched

1:27 if that's really the contents of your files they need to be reversed

1:27 but i assume just a mispaste

1:28 tobiassp1: doh of course … misspaste

1:28 thanks for checking it out btw

1:28 amalloy: k. i'll try to reproduce it locally

1:28 what directory is core.clj in? src/project/core.clj?

1:29 tobiassp1: yeah

1:29 amalloy: okay. your namespace needs to mirror your directory layout

1:29 so subcity.core needs to be in src/subcity/core.clj

1:29 and :main needs to refer to the actual namespace

1:30 tobiassp1: heh … i replaced instances of subcity with project … apparently i didnt catch all instances

1:30 sorry

1:30 amalloy: *chuckle*

1:30 tobiassp1: let me paste it up verbatim :)

1:31 if you refresh … i fixed it

1:31 sorry bout that

1:32 amalloy: sure? even with ctl-f5 it looks the same to me. i think amendments get a new url

1:32 tobiassp1: http://pastebin.com/PStaP5C8

1:32 shows that i was running a fever earlier

1:33 amalloy: okay. and core.clj is actually in src/subcity?

1:33 tobiassp1: yeah

1:33 osx btw with clojure and lein from macports

1:34 amalloy: hm. well your files look fine

1:34 tobiassp1: i figured i didnt get far enough to make any mistakes ;)

1:35 amalloy: *laugh*

1:35 yeah, when i lein uberjar it up it works fine

1:36 tobiassp1: i guess i will remove the macports versions and bootstrap everything with the lein shell script … is that the recommended approach ?

1:36 amalloy: tobiassp1: i'm afraid i can't help there. haven't touched a mac in years

1:37 but that's what i'd do. or if you don't mind a little ruby, you could use cake instead of lein

1:38 tobiassp1: thanks a ton for your help

1:38 amalloy: you might also need to add :gen-class to your (ns) declaration?

1:38 tobiassp1: i tried that with the same result

1:38 amalloy: k

1:38 well yes, it's not going to fix *this* problem

1:39 tobiassp1: i'll redo my env :) thanks again

1:40 amalloy: tobiassp1: just tried it locally: it needs :gen-class

1:40 (in addition to whatever else)

1:40 tobiassp1: k will add that again

1:43 omfg that worked … lame

1:44 amalloy: just junking macports?

1:44 tobiassp1: macports lein version is borked

1:44 yep

1:44 amalloy: yeah, lein is supported on linux and windows, to the best of my knowledge

1:46 tobiassp1: well now i get to do productive stuff :) thanks for helping me out

1:46 amalloy: any time

1:46 #clojure is pretty friendly. pop in as needed

1:49 tobiassp1: thanks!

1:59 amalloy: anyone have a link explaining how to do unit testing in clojure? i know clojure.test and lazytest are supposed to be great, but i don't know how to get started with them

3:44 LauJensen: Morning all

4:00 Raynes: Top of the mornin' to ya.

4:24 kumarshantanu: hi all

4:26 I wonder if stack trace printing should be pluggable *stacktrace-printer-fn* in Clojure 1.3 -- anybody shares the idea?

4:30 dmao: hi, does anyone know if the lein repl puts you into an env with the lein dependencies in the classpath? I tried to "use" something in my classpath but it's saying it can't be found.

4:31 kumarshantanu: dmao: it does

4:31 dmao: you need to say it like this -- (use 'app.xyz)

4:31 dmao: ah ok, that's why. thanks

4:57 danishkirel: &(loop [] (or (when-let [a nil] (recur)) 1))

4:57 sexpbot: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Integer

5:02 danishkirel: &(loop [] (or (when-let [a nil] (recur)) "test"))

5:02 sexpbot: java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException: Can only recur from tail position

5:04 danishkirel: So I thought the above form was elegant but it does not work. But it should not be a problem because or is short circuited. ;/

5:05 LauJensen: You can only use recur from the tail position

5:06 danishkirel: Yea - the error tells me. But it is some kind of tail position because or is short circuited, isn't it?

5:08 jarpiain: ,(macroexpand '(or (recur) "test"))

5:08 clojurebot: (let* [or__3470__auto__ (recur)] (if or__3470__auto__ or__3470__auto__ (clojure.core/or "test")))

5:09 danishkirel: I see.

5:36 * Raynes goes to bed.

5:36 Raynes: sexpbot: Night, my friend.

5:37 bmh: enjoy your timezone

5:37 sexpbot: Raynes: Night, master. <3

5:37 Raynes: bmh: It's nearly 5AM here.

5:37 bmh: Raynes: It's nearly 11AM here

5:37 Raynes: I just have a weird/non-existent sleeping schedule.

5:38 bmh: You'll do well in college.

6:17 esj: 1

8:27 agravier: Hi everyone

8:29 (noob warning) I've been trying to unit test some relatively simple code using atticus. https://github.com/hugoduncan/atticus

8:30 Is anyone using it too? Or are there better alternatives?

8:31 hugod: agravier: it's not the most popular option - are you familiar with clojure.test?

8:32 agravier: hugod: Yes, well, i read the doc, but I did't see how to easily mock functions

8:33 hugod: (I use the assertions and other basic forms in clojure.test, of course.)

8:34 hugod: agravier: you can replace the implementation of a function (at least in 1.2) by binding it to a new function

8:39 lpetit: hello, are the maven-clojure-plugin gurus in the room ?

8:40 agravier: hugod: So you are telling me that I can use (let [mockedfn #(...)] calling-fn) within mytests to mock a called function?

8:41 lpetit: agravier: replace let with binding

8:43 agravier: lpetit: Thank you, I'll do that and read the binding doc.

8:44 Additionally (It's reated to my issues with unit testing), I don't understand why (let [a (map #(println "processing " %) [1 2 3 4])] 'something) does not produce any output

8:44 lpetit: agravier: just note that the direction taken by clojure 1.3 is that by default, vars created via "def" will not be "dynamically rebindable" (via binding) anymore. Only those with the appropriate meta-data ( #^:dynamic ) will be. Of course, it will still be possible to "fix" a global var from the REPL by calling (def) again on it (this is not "binding", this is changing the root value of the var)

8:45 agravier: which output do you expect ?

8:46 agravier: map is lazy, and you do not start to consume its result (stored in the 'a' local) anywhere

8:46 agravier: lpetit: processing 1\nprocessing 2... (and the expected value 'smth)

8:46 lpetit: Hoooooo lazyness

8:47 lpetit: Thank you, I have to get used to think about lazy evaluation. I understand.

8:48 lpetit: agravier: np. You can still (for test purposes, I imagine) make the map fully realize itself by encapsulating it in a call to doall

8:48 ,(doc doall)

8:48 clojurebot: "([coll] [n coll]); When lazy sequences are produced via functions that have side effects, any effects other than those needed to produce the first element in the seq do not occur until the seq is co...

8:48 lpetit: >(doc doall)

8:49 argh

8:49 agravier: lpetit: Yes, thanks for reminding me that.

8:50 lpetit: I get back to understanding my own code now, have a nice day.

10:30 kzar: Is there an opposite of map that takes a list of functions and runs each one on some value?

10:31 oh I could use a for loop, sory

10:31 sorry*

10:32 jonasen: ,(map #(% 2) [dec identity inc])

10:32 clojurebot: (1 2 3)

10:33 kzar: jonasen: Oh cool, that's even better

10:33 Vinzent: ((reduce comp [f1 f2]) value)

10:35 kzar: jonasen: Thanks, I should have remembered when I did that accidently the other day

10:37 MayDaniel: kzar: ((juxt dec identity inc) 2)

10:41 dnolen: ,((apply juxt [dec identity inc]) 2)

10:41 clojurebot: [1 2 3]

10:43 kzar: Wow juxt is a pretty cool idea

10:44 I was doing some Python the other day and the more I learned about the language the more annoyed I got but with Clojure it's the other way around :)

11:08 dnolen: ,((juxt :foo :bar :baz) {:foo 'a :bar 'b :baz 'c :woz 'd})

11:08 clojurebot: [a b c]

11:09 LOPP: how do you do sorting in clojure

11:10 using java sort functions?

11:10 morphling: ,(doc sort)

11:10 clojurebot: "([coll] [comp coll]); Returns a sorted sequence of the items in coll. If no comparator is supplied, uses compare. comparator must implement java.util.Comparator."

11:17 LOPP: ah crap

11:17 so I can't just pick a clojure fn

11:17 to sort with?

11:17 also does sort function use transients or something

11:18 somehow I think swaping vector elements on immutable vector would incur a huge overhead

11:18 dnolen: ,(sort > [1 2 3 4 5 6])

11:18 clojurebot: (6 5 4 3 2 1)

11:19 LOPP: wait what

11:19 how is > a java.util.comparator?

11:19 confused

11:19 dnolen: LOPP: fns already implement that interface

11:20 convenient, eh?

11:20 LOPP: really?

11:20 jesus chirst how many interfaces do they implement

11:21 dnolen: a bazillion

11:21 LOPP: ,(sort (fn [] "ff") [1 2 3 4])

11:21 clojurebot: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args (2) passed to: sandbox$eval698$fn

11:21 LOPP: hm

11:22 Chousuke: clojure classes are rather interface-heavy :P

11:23 LOPP: I don't understand the error I got here

11:23 dnolen: that fn needs to take two arguments

11:23 LOPP: ^

11:23 LOPP: aha

11:23 kzar: I have a namespace called notes which just def's a var called notes. (A big list of all the different notes. I'm trying to import it with (:import wobble.notes notes) in my namespace declaration but that gives me "ClassNotFoundException: wobble.notes.notes". (:import wobble.notes) works but then I still have to do wobble.notes/notes to get at the notes. How can I import it so I can just use notes?

11:24 dnolen: kzar: import is for java classes

11:24 clojurebot: use

11:24 clojurebot: use vs require is (:use [lib :only [a b c]) or (:require [lib :as alias]) -- (:use lib) is only for playing around

11:24 LOPP: so fns that don't take 2 arguments and don't return a number implement Comparator so all its methods throw an exception?

11:25 ,(sort (fn [a b] "ff") [1 2 3 4])

11:25 clojurebot: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to java.lang.Number

11:25 LOPP: ok

11:25 that was expected

11:25 what about my second question

11:26 dnolen: LOPP: which is what?

11:26 LOPP: sorts do element swaps inside a vector

11:26 in clojure vectors this would cause a huge overhead

11:26 as a bunch of new vectors would get generated

11:26 is this worked around somehow?

11:26 kzar: (:use (wobble.notes notes)) gives me an error and (:use (wobble.notes/notes)) and (:use (wobble.notes)) don't seem to help me accesing notes without the wobble.notes/ prefix?

11:27 LOPP: in other words, would I be better served by converting into a java array and sorting that?

11:30 dnolen: LOPP: sort converts the collection to an array first then sorts, then returns a seq of the sorted collection

11:30 sorted array I mean

11:32 mfex: fliebel: ping

11:32 fliebel: mfex: pong

11:33 dnolen: kzar: (ns your-ns (:use [wobble.notes :only [notes]])), should work

11:33 fliebel: sexpbot should give a ping time for this stuff...

11:33 mfex: I think I found the problem with freqs function for minecraft

11:33 fliebel: mfex: … I'm listening

11:34 mfex: I also posted a reply on the clojure group but I can't see it yet

11:34 LaPingvino: fliebel: tafeltennis

11:34 kzar: dnolen: Sweet it works :) thnaks

11:35 fliebel: LaPingvino: huh?

11:35 LOPP: dnolen: since a boatload of clojure core fns return sequences, what do you do when you want your data to have properties of a vector, for instance I want to retain the ability to get items by index in O(1)

11:35 mfex: the numbers for the python algorithm are for running the program to plot the graph for the six types, as the one in your blogpost?

11:35 LOPP: most of the time I do one transformation on my vector and bam...vector benefits are gone

11:35 dnolen: LOPP: you will need to coerce the seq back into a vector (into [] some-seq)

11:36 fliebel: mfex: You're thinking hex vs dec?

11:36 LaPingvino: fliebel: hoe noemen we tafeltennis ook wel ;)

11:36 mfex: fliebel: the python approach only calculates the freqs for six types, while the clojure approach counts all frequencies and then shows only those for the 6 types

11:36 fliebel: LaPingvino: pingpong...

11:37 LOPP: dnolen:isn't that expensive?

11:37 mfex: fliebel: https://gist.github.com/666228

11:37 LaPingvino: fliebel: precies :)

11:37 fliebel: mfex: good point I think… I'll let it sink in.

11:38 mfex: fliebel: could you run the python code for all the types? I couldn't get the python code to work

11:38 dnolen: LOPP: if you need to the perf guarantees of Java arrays just use them instead. Clojure has plenty of methods for working with them. but you lose the simpler concurrency semantics. tradeoffs.

11:38 fliebel: mfex: You reordered a lot of the code. I'll try to run the Python code… on moment.

11:42 LOPP: my brother keep nagging me with CL. Says it cooler because it has mutables by default and it's also much faster than Clojure. :P nag nag nag

11:43 fliebel: mfex: It;s taking long… uncomfortably long…

11:43 mfex: fliebel: the python one I hope?

11:43 fliebel: mfex: yea

11:44 mfex: fliebel: the clojure code from the gist for all types take 40secs for me, because it only traverses the blocks array once

11:45 dnolen: LOPP: heh, write some moderately complex concurrent code and tell your brother to reimplement in CL. we'll see what he thinks then ;)

11:45 fliebel: mfex: I just piped all block types into the default blocks, and the resulting time is uncomfortably close to the clojure time.

11:46 mfex: fliebel: could you try the code from the gist? you only need to adjust the path to your level dir

11:51 LOPP: dnolen: true :) but not everyone works with concurrency, in fact I've never once needed to use it

11:52 fliebel: mfex: 12 seconds :D

11:53 mfex: fliebel: 12 secs for just freqs or total?

11:53 fliebel: freqs

11:53 dnolen: LOPP: in my experience even trivial tasks could benefit from good concurrency semantics, but most langs make it too hard to exploit that.

11:55 LOPP: a lot of the time I work with stuff that runs on servers like JSF pages, where multithreading is done by the container

11:55 mfex: fliebel: hmm I was hoping for less, the main point still stands tho

11:56 fliebel: mfex: Yea, so it's not a matter of how to do things fast, but what not to do.

11:57 mfex: I remember some gnu guy pointing out to a bsd group that some gnu tool was much faster by simply doing half the work.

11:58 dnolen: LOPP: sure, but eventually there's the scenario you might want to share temp data across threads. people just hack around that by writing to the db and reading out, adding incidental complexity. simpler to create an atom or ref and move on w/ your life.

11:59 mfex: fliebel: it is the right algorithm for the job, now it's a matter finding ways to chunk the work to utilize more of the cpu

11:59 fliebel: mfex: Thanks for figuring this out. I hope you had fun doin git :)

11:59 LOPP: here's one question: when do I use agents and when do I use futures

11:59 they seem very much the same in a lot of regards

12:01 mfex: fliebel: fun it was

13:05 pppaul: can someone tell me the benifits of using swank or slime?

13:05 right now i'm using just clojure-mode

13:11 Bahman: Hi all!

13:19 pppaul: batman?

13:33 nimred: i am trying to compile http://sprunge.us/IQYN but am getting http://sprunge.us/KUOA

13:33 what's wrong ?

13:35 dnolen: nimred: hmm looks like you don' t have your Clojure SLIME environment setup properly.

13:38 nimred: dnolen here are my settings --> http://sprunge.us/LSSb

13:40 dnolen: nimred: I never setup SLIME manually anymore, I just install from ELPA. I got tired of figuring out what was wrong w/ my setup.

13:41 nimred: dnolen elpa :/

13:42 dnolen: nimred: yup, sadly the headache of elpa is less than the headache of managing SLIME configuration.

14:02 tonyl: ping?

14:02 clojurebot: PONG!

14:04 pppaul: pong?

14:04 clojurebot: PONG YANG!

14:04 pppaul: yang?

14:04 ping pong?

14:04 ping pong yang?

14:05 (doc love)

14:05 clojurebot: Excuse me?

14:07 kzar: ying

14:09 jdsanders: Raynes: you around? started looking into giving you a hand with making the tryclojure tutorial interactive, want to talk about what you're looking for?

14:15 kzar: I've seen some Java that writes AudioFileFormat.Type.WAVE , I've already imported AudioFileFormat and tab completion confirms it's around but AudioFileFormat/Type and AudioFileFormat.Type give me nothing?

14:16 jarpiain: kzar: AudioFileFormat$Type

14:17 kumarshantanu: hi, did anybody get La Clojure working with Clojure 1.2 ?

14:17 pppaul: what's special about la clojure?

14:17 kzar: jarpiain: Hmm that's not giving me anything either

14:17 pppaul: is it french?

14:18 jarpiain: kzar: you need to import it also

14:18 kumarshantanu: pppaul: "La Clojure" is the Clojure plugin for IntelliJ IDEA

14:18 pppaul: oooooooh

14:18 kzar: jarpiain: Ah sweet that works, thanks

14:18 jarpiain: What does the $ mean?

14:19 pppaul: (doc $)

14:19 clojurebot: No entiendo

14:19 jarpiain: it's the encoding javac uses for inner class names

14:19 tonyl: it is a class inside a class

14:19 jarpiain: inner classes don't really exist on the JVM level

14:19 kzar: heh 'Yo dawg...'

14:34 kumarshantanu: repeat-question -- did anybody here get La Clojure working with Clojure 1.2?

14:39 nimred: any good tutorial to install cloj-ure/swank/slime emacs modes without using elpa ?

14:40 kumarshantanu: nimred: is it useful? http://charsequence.blogspot.com/2010/07/setup-emacs-for-development-with.html

14:42 nimred: ah kumarshantanu also without starter-kit

14:43 kumarshantanu: nimred: do you want to use leiningen at all?

14:43 if not, perhaps you can just install Emacs and Slime and get going

14:44 Swank is to connect to lein-environment using slime-connect

14:44 Raynes: apgwoz: Yo.

14:46 nimred: isn't leiningen need to just compile clojure ?

14:47 kumarshantanu: nimred: lein is useful for several things

14:47 nimred: to build clojure code i mean

14:47 kumarshantanu: lein is advisable when working on a project rather than just a file or the REPL

14:48 Emacs doesn't know about Lein in particular, but it can connect to Lein using Swank/Slime-connect

14:48 nimred: if you can tell me your requirement maybe I can suggest something more specific

15:27 samx: when building a set with #{:a :b}, will the implementation be a hash-set, or some array based thing (like with literal maps) ?

15:28 chouser: ,(class #{:a :b})

15:28 clojurebot: clojure.lang.PersistentHashSet

15:28 samx: cheers

15:36 bartj: what is the difference between PersistentHashMap and PersistentArrayMap?

15:36 , (type {:a 1})

15:36 clojurebot: clojure.lang.PersistentArrayMap

15:37 Raynes: One has a longer name than the other. ;)

15:37 bartj: can someone give an example of PersistentHashMap ?

15:42 weirdly, I get the following error while using clojure.contrib.json:

15:42 Caused by: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No implementation of method: :read-json-from of protocol: #'clojure.contrib.json/Read-JSON-From found for class: clojure.lang.PersistentHashMap

15:45 mfex: bartj : perhaps the input is not a string {} instead of "{}"

15:47 lpetit: hello. maven experts ? clojure-maven-contributors ? in the room ?

15:47 stuartsierra: eh?

15:48 lpetit: Hello Stuart

15:48 stuartsierra: hi

15:49 lpetit: I need all the experience of a maven guru because I just entered the "clojure maven club" :-)

15:49 stuartsierra: welcome

15:49 lpetit: So

15:50 I want to compile ccw.core with maven. It contains both clojure and java code. There are dependencies inside the artifact between the 2 worlds. But not dependencies in the "usual way". It's my java code which depends on my clojure gen-classes.

15:50 bmh: has anyone used zef's jopenid wrapper?

15:51 lpetit: So I have attached the clojure:compile goal to the "generate-sources" phase, so that it comes first.

15:51 But (yes, there's a but)

15:51 kumarshantanu: lpetit: would suggest split into multiple small projects (in dependency order)

15:52 lpetit: I'm using a packaging specific to Eclipse/PDE (plugins) compilation: "eclipse-plugin". Provided by "Tycho" ( a set of maven plugins under development by Sonatype )

15:52 stuartsierra: You probably need to split into separate projects or separate modules within a project.

15:52 lpetit: Wait ... :)

15:53 I already have separate modules in the project which make sense. I do not have circular dependencies inside my artifact.

15:54 stuartsierra: Pretty much any time you need to control the order of compilation, you need separate modules

15:54 lpetit: The problem is that Tycho is doing magical stuff : it is "enhancing" the project classpath with classpath entries it finds in the plugin's META-INF/MANIFEST.MF

15:55 But this *seems* to be done by tycho's maven-osgi-compiler-plugin, in the "compile" phase. So it's too late for me (I try to compile in the "generate-sources" phase).

15:55 kumarshantanu: is there a function that wraps a value into a function that always return the constant? e.g. (wrap true) -- returns (fn [& x] true)

15:55 lpetit: stuartsierra: I understand. But I will resist separating artifacts just for the sake of technical concerns (contrary to design concerns) as far as possible

15:56 constantly ?

15:56 stuartsierra: Resistance is futile

15:56 lpetit: ,(doc constantly)

15:56 clojurebot: "([x]); Returns a function that takes any number of arguments and returns x."

15:56 lpetit: stuartsierra: which rule number of the "maven club" ? ;-p

15:56 kumarshantanu: lpetit: ah yes, thanks!

15:57 stuartsierra: The first rule of Maven Club is Everybody Hates Maven

15:57 lpetit: stuartsierra, kumarshantanu: the whole story is here: https://github.com/sonatype/sonatype-tycho/blob/master/tycho-maven-plugin/src/main/resources/META-INF/plexus/components.xml#L23

15:58 Plouj: wow, you people are actually using clojure for real projects?

15:58 lpetit: If you could just tell me if there's a flaw in my analysis (beyond the "split into modules" advice, which I take in mind, given the "resistance is futile" abstract rule)

15:58 Plouj: are you asking this seriously ?

15:58 Plouj: lpetit: yes

15:59 kumarshantanu: Plouj: http://www.google.co.in/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=clojure+production+use

15:59 stuartsierra: lpetit: sorry, I have no idea what the Tycho plugin might be doing

15:59 lpetit: Plouj: AFAIC, depends whether you consider ccw a real project or not :)

15:59 kumarshantanu: lpetit: what's the use-case? Maven support in CCW?

16:01 lpetit: stuartsierra: it provides an alternate java compiler, which enhances the regular compiler by being able to look into the project's MANIFEST.MF, find OSGi dependencies (e.g. org.eclipse.equinox), resolve them from a p2 repository (OSGi repository full of OSGi bundles) and use the result to "enhance" the classpath of the project.

16:02 stuartsierra: Does it alter the classpath in a way that clojure-maven-plugin can use?

16:02 lpetit: kumarshantanu: no, the usecase is "being able to build ccw with maven". ccw being an eclipse project with lots of plugins, I'm using Tycho which seems to be the right tool (it has been created for this intent).

16:02 answer I got from the Tycho mailing list: "Tycho injects all resolved OSGi dependencies back into Maven project

16:02 model, so, in theory, regular maven mojos should see complete classpath

16:02 with all dependencies."

16:03 So in theory, yes. I'm just wary that this "injects all resolved ..." thing happens too late for me when I want to compile "before" tycho.

16:04 I would have expected that Tycho had injected these OSGi related classpath entries early on.

16:04 kumarshantanu: lpetit: because tycho is not Clojure-aware?

16:04 lpetit: kumarshantanu: yes, not aware at all.

16:05 clojure-maven-plugin uses this: ${project.compileClasspathElements}

16:05 (via dependency injection, if I understand well)

16:05 And Tycho compiler does this:

16:05 kumarshantanu: lpetit: looks like -- split into (1) clojure specific stuff using Clojure-maven plugin, (2) rest of tycho-related parts that depends in #1

16:06 lpetit: https://github.com/sonatype/sonatype-tycho/blob/master/maven-osgi-compiler-plugin/src/main/java/org/codehaus/tycho/osgicompiler/AbstractOsgiCompilerMojo.java#L220

16:06 kumarshantanu: so, #1 and #2 are separate artifacts (perhaps independent projects)

16:06 lpetit: kumarshantanu: yes, but what if this does not make any architectural sense ?

16:07 (interestingly enough, if somebody else would have asked, I may well be in Shantanu's position :) )

16:07 Is it bad to expect that the tool adapts to me ? :)

16:07 stuartsierra: with Maven, yes

16:08 "You don't configure Maven, Maven configures you."

16:08 kumarshantanu: lpetit: if it finally "just builds" gives a JAR that "just works" that makes all the sense in the world ;-)

16:08 lpetit: in the end, yes, I wholeheartedly agree :-)

16:09 stuartsierra: what is the maven incantation to avoid to prevent one's hairs become blue ? :-p

16:09 :)

16:09 stuartsierra: mvn -DturnHairBlue=false

16:09 lpetit: sorry this joke was a little bit "hairy"

16:09 stuartsierra: It made me feel "blue"

16:10 lpetit: maven blues ?

16:10 :)

16:11 technomancy: so... I don't suppose anyone has figured out how to get RT.load to work when Clojure is on the boot classpath?

16:17 it's one of those great situations where you're searching and you find something that looks like it's exactly what you're looking for, only to realize it's a mailing list post that you sent. =\

16:17 there should be a term for that phenomenon

16:18 stuartsierra: technomancy: Programming

16:18 technomancy: quite

16:19 kumarshantanu: technomancy: RT/load seems to be working for non-classpath'ed .clj files -- what am I missing?

16:20 technomancy: kumarshantanu: it works when clojure is on the bootclasspath?

16:21 kumarshantanu: technomancy: oops...let me try

16:21 lpetit: technomancy: will it be a problem related to classloader hierarchies visibility, or something more subtle related to the boot classloader ?

16:22 technomancy: lpetit: probably the first; I think the root cause is that RT.baseLoader assumes Compiler.class.getClassLoader will return a sensible value

16:22 but it just returns nil when the bootclassloader comes into play

16:23 lpetit: technomancy: oops, yes. But why did it work *before* ?

16:24 technomancy: lpetit: I don't think it ever worked, but there were workarounds before that are no longer effective

16:25 basically: it used to be if you wanted to use a lib that used another lib (say clojure.test requires clojure.stacktrace) you could load clojure.stacktrace, then clojure.test

16:25 but now clojure.main requires clojure.repl, so you can't even get started.

16:25 clojure.main used to depend on nothing

16:25 lpetit: technomancy: ok.

16:25 technomancy: I'd be happy if I could get that workaround fixed, but of course it would be better if RT.load just worked. =)

16:26 lpetit: good luck then (I don't use the bootclasspath trick myself, and would not recommend it anyway)

16:26 technomancy: lpetit: are you aware it cuts clojure's boot time in half?

16:26 0.59s here

16:26 lpetit: even if it cut it by 4, it would remain a trick, sorry for that.

16:27 technomancy: is there another way to skip running the bytecode verifier on a jar?

16:28 don't say "dalvik" =)

16:29 lpetit: technomancy: :)

16:29 vibrant: evenin

16:29 technomancy: I'm interested to hear of the pitfalls. other than the RT.load problem it's been working fine so far.

16:30 JRuby also uses it effectively

16:30 vibrant: technomancy; you use clj-processing?

16:31 technomancy: vibrant: once upon a time, but it's been about a year since I did

16:31 vibrant: oh, ok. i did a fork too and actually even committed some changes.

16:32 probably more will come, as i write this game of mine :)

16:32 technomancy: cool. I found it to be fun.

16:32 vibrant: yeah it's the only package that is usable and documented.

16:32 for graphics.

16:34 technomancy: it looks like the clj-processing guy is still somewhat active

16:36 vibrant: the original guy a bit, but then there is some other guy's port which builds on that and i forget that one since it had better mouse support.

16:36 s/port/fork/

16:36 sexpbot: <vibrant> the original guy a bit, but then there is some other guy's fork which builds on that and i forget that one since it had better mouse supfork.

16:44 jnymo: yerp

16:44 this thing work? Am I on?

16:44 kumarshantanu: technomancy: I can't even get the REPL by putting clojure-1.2.0.jar in the boot classpath

16:45 maybe missing more subtle things

16:45 raek: jnymo: we can hear you

16:46 jnymo: hmm. used to have to sign in.. hmm

16:47 anyway. So, I frequent the clojure community from time to time.

16:47 kumarshantanu: possible reason -- RT/load seems to depend on Class.forName infrastructure (which means the regular classpath)

16:47 jnymo: I know someone who needs a website built and they asked me who they should go with to create their website for a fair price. It's for a book they are publishing soon. Honestly,

16:48 Honestly, I don't know. But I figured someone here would know.

16:48 Doesn't have to be a big shop. But not a chop shop either.

16:49 anyone have any favorites?

16:50 I know it's off topic, but I enjoy and appreciate the clojure community, so I figured I'd give you guys some business, whoever is in the webdev community.

16:51 sl33k: which one is a good resource/tutorial on clojure

16:51 jnymo: It could even be done in compojure, if that's your fancy :)

16:52 sl33k, honestly, clojure.org has a list of links with great tutorials.

16:52 kumarshantanu: Class.forName seems to be beyond Boot classloader

16:52 jnymo: there's wikibooks, but there are also tons of other good places to learn clojure.. clojure.org is a great place to start though.

16:52 sl33k: wich are the prerequisites

16:53 what prior knowledge

16:53 jnymo: sl33k. None really, but knowing either java or lisp helps.

16:54 technomancy: kumarshantanu: the repl doesn't work here either, but clojure.main -e does

16:55 and that's all I need. =)

16:56 * technomancy slyly mentions the peepcode

16:56 technomancy: ~peepcode

16:56 clojurebot: peepcode is a commercial screencast series; see the Clojure one at http://peepcode.com/products/functional-programming-with-clojure by technomancy

16:56 jrp: hello, Im having some difficulty getting emacs + misc set up. Ive set up emacs, slime, and clojure, and I think emacs a bit more with elpa but Im getting errors when I M-x slime, namely that it cant find swank

16:59 If anyone could explain a bit of whats going on, Im rather confused. Normally Im perfectly happy using vim + friends and there is a ton of new stuff here to learn at once

17:00 Raynes: jrp: Not to turn you away from Emacs, but there is some Clojure Vim support. Check out VimClojure if you haven't already.

17:00 jrp: Raynes: I have, but last time I checked the only way to get a repl inside vim was to do some hackish stuff involving sending stuff to screen. Has that changed?

17:01 Raynes: Yup.

17:01 jrp: Alright, Ill give it a try. thanks

17:01 Raynes: I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with screen now.

17:01 jnymo: aint no website devs in here that want a job? Aight den.. but pm me if you want.

17:02 Raynes: $dict soliciting

17:02 sexpbot: Raynes: verb: present participle of soliciting.

17:02 kumarshantanu: jrp: does this help? http://charsequence.blogspot.com/2010/07/setup-emacs-for-development-with.html

17:02 Raynes: jrp: If you do go with Emacs, try using cake or leiningen to start a swank server in a project, and then connect to it with M-x slime-connect

17:03 jrp: That's the most popular workflow these days.

17:03 jrp: Would you guys recommend emacs + vipermode or vim + vimclojure?

17:04 Ive notced most people using emacs + slime + friends, and Ive found that the wisdom of some crowds to be decent

17:04 Raynes: If you're already familiar with Vim, and you aren't familiar with Clojure, it might be easier on you to just use Vim for now so that you don't have to learn all of this at once. Warding off frustration. However, in the long run, I'd recommend you go with Emacs because SLIME is fantastic.

17:05 jrp: Hm, used vim for 10 years, so yeah, I guess Ill give that a try.

17:05 Raynes: Most people do use Emacs, mostly because of SLIME. There are lots of Vim users in the Clojure community, they just tend to be less vocal I guess.

17:06 hiredman: technomancy: have you seen http://download.oracle.com/javase/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/Class.html#getClassLoader()

17:07 jdsanders: jrp: last time I got interactive eval through vim working was using nailgun, which felt hacky to me, but didn't involve the use of screen

17:09 I personally decided it was less valuable to have SLIME-like support than to use the vim environment I'm already good at

17:09 jrp: jdsanders: Yeah, that looks like what Im doing now and pretty much what Im thinking

17:09 althought to be fair, I dont use too many features of vim

17:09 jdsanders: well, that's an interesting point

17:10 it's a balance, at some point the better evaluation support is more valuable than the current vim knowledge

17:10 for me, it's mostly navigation, i'm too full of vim kool aid at this point to use the arrow keys or control sequences to move around text

17:11 vipermode is pretty good, and I'd like to spend more time with it

17:11 jrp: does vipermode not help out with that?

17:11 oh

17:11 jdsanders: yeah definitely it does

17:12 there were just small things for me that i got frustrated with about vipermode, but I don't think I gave it enough of a chance

17:12 chouser: whoops. *agent* isn't defined in agent handlers in 1.3a3

17:13 wait, in 1.2?

17:14 strike that

17:14 jrp: well vimclojure mode blows up, so i guess ill try emacs

17:14 chouser: right, ok. 1.2 is correct. 1.3a3 is not

17:14 & (send (agent nil) #(prn :agent *agent* %))

17:14 , (send (agent nil) #(prn :agent *agent* %))

17:14 clojurebot: #<Agent@14f223f: nil>

17:14 chouser: meh

17:15 jrp: can someone give me a rough outline of what the rough architecture of swank is? I get that clj is the repl, and that slime is bindings for emacs that provides helpful info

17:17 chouser: ,(let [a (agent 1)] (send a #(array-map :state % :agent *agent*)) (await a) @a)

17:17 clojurebot: {:state 1, :agent #<Agent@269101: {:state 1, :agent #<Agent@269101: {:state 1, :agent #}>}>}

17:17 chouser: & (let [a (agent 1)] (send a #(array-map :state % :agent *agent*)) (await a) @a)

17:18 that's right. 1.3a3 says :agent nil

17:18 raek: jrp: http://i.imgur.com/9ZUMG.png I'm sorry that I don't have any time to explain it, but this picture is from a tutorial I'm working on

17:19 the lightning bolt is a network connection

17:19 hiredman: I bet the bindings are being "rehydrated" after *agent* is bound, and the rehydrated bindings have *agent* as nil

17:19 jrp: raek: ok, thanks.

17:21 hiredman: so maybe is send-off and send bound *agent* before sudmiting the Action? I haven't looked at the binding+threadpool stuff at all

17:21 if

17:21 LauJensen: ClojureQL now supports joining on tables with aggregates. This is first cut but working, see commit msg for example https://github.com/LauJensen/clojureql/commit/0eef6b41936cc8422a4909f1e8b3c89fa559594c

17:22 technomancy: hiredman: yeah, .getClassLoader is well-documented to return nil for classes that came from the bootclassloader

17:23 although... it does say that the getSystemResource static method will work where the boot classloader is involved. that would at least cover the part of the problem that I've been able to diagnose so far

17:24 I'm going to stick with 1.2 for now though

17:26 hiredman: oh I am such a liar, I must have looked at the binding conveyance stuff at some point, because when I open core.clj that is where emacs drops me

17:27 technomancy: clojurebot: is hiredman lazy?

17:27 clojurebot: hiredman is an evil genius.

17:27 technomancy: I see.

17:30 jrp: jdsanders: Im kinda confused with vimclojure, it says I need to compile a jar, but I dont see any java files in the zip

17:31 jdsanders: hmm, crap it's been awhile since I set mine up and I don't remember too well, where are you following directions from?

17:32 chouser: hiredman: that's my guess -- still looking

17:33 hiredman: which rhickey anounced the binding conveyance I was expecting something a little more magical then wrapping functions in a function that does the binding dance

17:33 when

17:34 jrp: jdsanders: the main site here: http://kotka.de/projects/clojure/vimclojure.html and the readme

17:35 jdsanders: they seem to conflict

17:38 chouser: hiredman: yep, that's it. *agent* is bound then the fn created by binding-conveyor-fn is called, which resets the bindingframe, and then the sent fn is called.

17:38 * kumarshantanu going to hit the hammock

17:38 kumarshantanu: bye all

17:39 jdsanders: jrp: ah, it looks like you need to compile a jar for nailgun support...i don't use that anymore...i recall thinking it was a bit hacky (possibly because of compiling a mysterious jar??)

17:40 jrp: also why are there two versions of swank-clojure on github?

17:42 jdsanders: dunno if you've found this screencast yet, looks helpful, not sure how old it is

17:42 http://blip.tv/file/1884989

17:43 jrp: yeah, i think thats older. ah well, thanks anyways

17:43 jdsanders: for what it's worth, all I have is a clojure.vim in ftdetect, ftplugin, indent, and syntax

17:58 qbg: ,(distinct? '[1 x x 2])

17:58 clojurebot: true

17:58 qbg: That doesn't seem right!

17:59 mrBliss: ,(apply distinct? '[1 x x 2])

17:59 clojurebot: false

17:59 qbg: Reading fail :(

17:59 technomancy: jrp: the author of swank-clojure abandoned it; I've taken it over

18:00 jrp: oh. thanks.

18:01 belun: don't you have enough tehcno ? :P

18:02 technomancy: belun: well... I took it over 18 months or so ago... back when I was a slacker

18:04 thoth: can you guys check this post (http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4111715/what-does-it-mean-for-something-to-compose-well) and perhaps gave some insight why my post has a downvote ? did i do a big mistake there ?

18:05 Lopp: ,(doc array-map)

18:05 clojurebot: "([] [& keyvals]); Constructs an array-map."

18:05 Lopp: what's an array-map

18:05 pppaul: (doc flatmap)

18:05 clojurebot: Excuse me?

18:06 pppaul: (doc flatten)

18:06 clojurebot: "([x]); Takes any nested combination of sequential things (lists, vectors, etc.) and returns their contents as a single, flat sequence. (flatten nil) returns nil."

18:06 pppaul: what is swank clojure supposed to provide me with?

18:06 technomancy: pppaul: it's an enhanced repl-like server that Emacs can interact with.

18:07 * Raynes notes that sexpbot is down for a while because his VPS hosting provider loves negligence.

18:07 pppaul: when i put inferior-lisp into clojure-mode it breaks

18:07 will swank keep it un-broken?

18:07 thoth: damn mirc is still ugly...

18:08 pppaul: use something other than mirc

18:08 thoth: like ?

18:08 pppaul: i use Xchat.... though mirc may be better than xchat as i can't even configure it to automate some stuff, or exclude quits/joins

18:09 there are a lot of irc clients, though

18:09 clojurebot: excusez-moi

18:09 pppaul: one is probably good

18:09 thoth: i know there are wikipedia has a huge list

18:09 i'm lost in there

18:09 Raynes: I use XChat as well.

18:09 pppaul: you can use irc in emacs. one of my friends really likes that

18:09 thoth: emacs is like the console from matrix

18:09 i like pretty stuff

18:09 pppaul: ^_^

18:10 thoth: i juz want to change the foooont

18:10 pppaul: i don't know if xchat lets me change that

18:10 thoth: got client :P

18:10 pppaul: you should make a fork of xchat

18:10 thoth: good*

18:11 Raynes: You can change the font in XChat.

18:11 samx: why does (dorun 2 (map println (range 1 10))) print all numers from 1 to 10 ? i thought that due to the lazy evaluation, it should only be printing 1 2 3?

18:11 pppaul: &( dorun 2 (map println (range 1 4)))

18:12 &( take 2 (map println (range 1 4)))

18:12 &( take 2 (map prn (range 1 4)))

18:12 oh

18:12 i forgot about sexbot being offline

18:12 thoth: ya u gotta use take. whats got the rest have to do with 1 to 3 ?

18:12 jrp: Hm ok. So Ive gathered I need to run a nailgun server with vim clojure, and Ive found a lein-vimclojure project that does that, but when I run it I get NoClassDefFoundError: clojure/main

18:12 thoth: clojure jars

18:12 pppaul: classpath may be wrong

18:13 (doc dorun)

18:13 clojurebot: "([coll] [n coll]); When lazy sequences are produced via functions that have side effects, any effects other than those needed to produce the first element in the seq do not occur until the seq is consumed. dorun can be used to force any effects. Walks through the successive nexts of the seq, does not retain the head and returns nil."

18:14 pppaul: (doc doall)

18:14 clojurebot: "([coll] [n coll]); When lazy sequences are produced via functions that have side effects, any effects other than those needed to produce the first element in the seq do not occur until the seq is consumed. doall can be used to force any effects. Walks through the successive nexts of the seq, retains the head and returns it, thus causing the entire seq to reside in memory at one time."

18:14 samx: well, the dorun example of printing only 1 2 3 is from 'Practical Clojure', and in the printed text it's showing it to only print the first three

18:14 pppaul: use clojure-docs website to look at examples

18:15 i don't have experience using dorun

18:15 Raynes: pppaul: When sexpbot is down, you can use clojurebot to evaluate code. Just use , instead of &.

18:15 pppaul: ,( take 2 (map prn (range 1 4)))

18:15 clojurebot: (nil nil)

18:15 samx: i'm not looking for examples, but looking to understand why it's doing something that i'm considering unexpected

18:15 pppaul: ,( take 2 (map cons (range 1 4)))

18:15 clojurebot: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args (1) passed to: core$cons

18:15 pppaul: maybe the book is wrong

18:15 so examples may help

18:16 thoth: :)

18:16 pppaul: i don't think books have editors anymore

18:17 ,( take 2 (map #(cons %) (range 1 4)))

18:17 clojurebot: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args (1) passed to: core$cons

18:17 thoth: cons join some elements to a seq

18:17 u just have the seq tehre

18:17 pppaul: ,( take 2 (map #(cons join %) (range 1 4)))

18:17 clojurebot: java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: join in this context

18:17 pppaul: i guess i need to use let/

18:18 ,( take 2 (map #(cons (join %)) (range 1 4)))

18:18 clojurebot: java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: join in this context

18:18 pppaul: (doc join)

18:18 clojurebot: It's greek to me.

18:18 nimred: kumarshantanu yes i need leiningen. Shouldn't http://riddell.us/ClojureSwankLeiningenWithEmacsOnLinux.html work ?

18:18 pppaul: i hope it does, cus i'll probably follow it soon

18:19 thoth: :-)

18:19 Raynes: apgwoz: I'll check out your new stuff in a little while. Busy reaming dmehosting at the moment.

18:20 technomancy: nimred: that's kind of a painstakingly complex way to get things working

18:20 pppaul: nimred: i think i used another tutorial off the site for clojure, it was good

18:20 technomancy: you don't need to go through all those steps unless you're a gentoo user. =)

18:21 nimred: pppaul URI ?

18:21 danlarkin: watch out! gentoo burn coming through

18:22 pppaul: nimred http://riddell.us/ClojureOnUbuntu.html

18:22 if you have any problems ask me, i made a text of any issues i had (there was one with the scrip)

18:23 wish these things were wikis so i could correct them

18:23 thoth: what functions have sideeffect ?

18:23 pppaul: (rand)

18:23 thoth: those that do concurency ?

18:23 samx: hmm.. ok.. (dorun 2 (map println (range 1 1000))) only prints 1..32.. so, i guess its forcing the evaluation in blocks of 32

18:23 technomancy: pppaul: that's also a lot more complicated than you need to do too

18:24 pppaul: yeah i know, but i wanted to use git and learn a bit anyway

18:24 also, the ubuntu repo doesn't work 100%

18:24 nimred: pppaul almost the same. When was that written ?

18:24 technomancy: yeah, I mean it works, but people might get the wrong idea that Clojure is really hard to use with Emacs

18:24 pppaul: nimred, i dono, a year ago

18:25 i had a lot of trouble getting it to run with emacs, even with the tutorials from the main clojure sites

18:25 they aren't made for people who have no idea what emacs is, or little experience using emacs

18:25 took me a long time to figure out what some of the steps meant

18:26 nimred: pppaul did you post your notes somewhere ?

18:26 pppaul: no

18:26 nimred: ok

18:26 pppaul: they are on my dropbox, maybe i can make it public

18:26 nimred: technomancy what more simple way do you purpose to install ?

18:27 belun: propose* :D

18:27 technomancy: nimred: leiningen is already only 2 lines to install, then do "lein install swank-clojure 1.3.0-SNAPSHOT". now you can launch a swank server with ~/.lein/bin/swank-clojure

18:28 pppaul: nimred give me your email address and i'll share my folder

18:29 technomancy: then hit M-x package-install slime-repl. then you can connect to a running swakn server with M-x slime-connect

18:29 (package-install won't work unless you're on the latest Emacs or the starter kit, but on older ones it's easy to install.)

18:29 pppaul: thanks technomancy

18:30 nimred: technomancy sorry but i prefer a "by-hand" install

18:30 technomancy: most of that is already in the swank-clojure readme, except for the stuff that relies on newer lein features

18:31 nimred: ok, then the riddel.us tutorials are great for you. but that's very uncommon.

18:33 belun: can anyone explain currying ? meet the term again and don't know what really means

18:34 pppaul: there is a wikipedia article on it

18:34 it's related to functional programming

18:35 f(x y) = (f y (g x)) or something

18:35 or was it f(x) + (g y)

18:35 belun: invented by haskel curry... look 2 things in 1 name :P

18:35 pppaul: this is making me hungry

18:36 haskel is the man!

18:37 belun: the book the joy of clojure says currying is different than using partial... they sound the same to me

18:38 technomancy: currying is only possible in languages without varargs

18:39 basically if f takes 2 args and you call it with 1 in a language with currying, you'll get the equivalent of (partial f x) back instead of calling f

18:39 belun: so it misses the call

18:39 calling*

18:40 technomancy: it's just a more convenient way to do partial application at the expense of varargs

18:41 belun: varargs is darkmatter science to me :)

18:41 technomancy: variable arity

18:41 functions that may be called with more than one argument count

18:42 belun: what are functions with 1 arg called ?

18:43 technomancy: one arg list, not one arg.

18:43 you may call reduce with two arguments or three arguments

18:44 so it supports multiple arities

18:44 belun: oh arity = number of args

18:47 technomancy: aye

18:47 belun: ty

18:49 so wait, why is it move convenient to do partial ?

18:50 more*

18:50 chewbranca: is there no longer a boot.clj? I'm watching the talk on sequences where rich hickey mentions to look at boot.clj

18:51 technomancy: belun: partial is less convenient than currying, but as I understand it you can't support currying and variable arity; they are mutually exclusive

18:51 chewbranca: btw this is in clojure 1.2 from github

18:52 nimred: any .clj file to test my fresh install ?

18:52 technomancy: chewbranca: it's now called clojure/core.clj

18:53 chewbranca: technomancy: cool thanks. btw, I'm Russell the big guy who showed up at seajure this week

18:53 belun: therefore since clojure has multimethods, then it's bye bye currying ?

18:53 technomancy: chewbranca: oh cool; nice to match faces and nicks

18:53 belun: multimethods are a separate thing from variable arity

18:53 belun: damn...

18:53 technomancy: belun: but right.

18:54 having to use partial is a pretty slight inconvenience compared to the flexibility you get from variable arity though.

18:55 chewbranca: technomancy: for sure. I'm making progress through the videos right now, two things are very different from what I'm used to that I really like, 1) live repl where you can interact with the running program, I went through the ant simulation talk on friday, amazingly cool to be able to update the running simulation/gui live from the repl inside my editor, and 2) I'm really liking lazy lists, very cool stuff

18:56 belun: wut videos ?

18:56 chewbranca: belun: http://clojure.blip.tv/

18:58 technomancy: that's what got me started 2 years minus three weeks ago.

18:59 nimred: pppaul !

18:59 belun: this has nothing to do with clojure, but have you heard some guy used genetic algorithms with starcraft2 and come up with a build order to kick butts ? :D

18:59 nimred: no URI ?

19:01 Raynes: apgwoz: Ping.

19:02 nimred: pppaul isn't it http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/ants.clj ?

19:03 pppaul: nimred, could be

19:04 belun, he used java

19:04 belun: also, it only came up with one build order... at least that i know of

19:04 belun: ya the rest were inveted by chinesse ppl :P

19:05 pppaul: koreans

19:05 belun: ma bad

19:05 pppaul: chinese people aren't allowed to play because there is blood in the game

19:05 belun: ot even green blood ?

19:05 not*

19:05 pppaul: so the blood is being censored with overlays of kittens

19:06 belun: poor guys

19:06 technomancy: you mean like http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/8/11/

19:06 pppaul: only with more kittens

19:07 belun: that thins is ugglier then the real stuff

19:07 it's like growing on him

19:09 pppaul: ,#([%]

19:09 (cond (= % nil) nil

19:09 :else (cons (last %)

19:09 (my-reverse (butlast %))))) [1 2 3 4 5 6]

19:09 clojurebot: EOF while reading

19:09 belun: sry to waste ur time, but omg smarts : http://thereifixedit.failblog.org/2010/11/05/white-trash-repairs-beeramid-is-locked-in-and-ready-to-go

19:10 pppaul: ,#(my-reverse [%] (cond (= % nil) nil :else (cons (last %) (my-reverse (butlast %))))) [1 2 3 4 5 6]

19:10 clojurebot: java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: my-reverse in this context

19:10 pppaul: (doc fn)

19:10 clojurebot: "([& sigs]); (fn name? [params* ] exprs*) (fn name? ([params* ] exprs*)+) params => positional-params* , or positional-params* & next-param positional-param => binding-form next-param => binding-form name => symbol Defines a function"

19:12 pppaul: ,#(my-reverse (cond (= % nil) nil :else (cons (last %) (my-reverse (butlast %))))) [1 2 3 4 5 6]

19:12 clojurebot: java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: my-reverse in this context

19:19 pppaul: ,( (fn my-reverse [%]

19:19 (cond (= % nil) nil

19:19 :else (cons (last %) (my-reverse (butlast %)))))

19:19 [1 2 3 4 5 6])

19:19 clojurebot: EOF while reading

19:20 nimred: well cannot execute nor compile ants.clj

19:20 pppaul: you don't compile stuff

19:21 to load ants go into clojure-mode, C-x C-l ants.clj

19:21 then look at the last line, and run those in the inferior-lisp REPL

19:22 ,((fn my-reverse [%] (cond (= % nil) nil :else (cons (last %) (my-reverse (butlast %))))) [1 2 3 4 5 6])

19:22 clojurebot: (6 5 4 3 2 1)

19:22 pppaul: anyone like my sexy reverse function?

19:22 ,((fn my-reverse [%] (cond (= % nil) nil :else (cons (last %) (my-reverse (butlast %))))) (range 1e4))

19:23 clojurebot: Execution Timed Out

19:23 pppaul: i think it's O(n^3)

19:25 ,1e4

19:25 clojurebot: 10000.0

19:25 pppaul: (time 1e4)

19:25 ,(time 1e4)

19:25 clojurebot: "Elapsed time: 0.066 msecs"

19:25 10000.0

19:25 pppaul: ,(time 1e4000)

19:25 clojurebot: "Elapsed time: 0.148 msecs"

19:25 Infinity

19:25 nimred: pppaul that's what i do but here is what i get --> http://sprunge.us/DiIh

19:27 pppaul: nimred sure that you can run any clojure in the REPL?

19:27 ,(System/getProperty "java.class.path")

19:27 clojurebot: java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.util.PropertyPermission java.class.path read)

19:28 pppaul: nimred, i haven't used swank/slime with clojure yet

19:29 nimred: [~]->> clj

19:29 Clojure 1.2.0-master-SNAPSHOT

19:29 user=> (System/getProperty "java.class.path")

19:29 "/home/nimred/.clojure/clojure.jar:/home/nimred/.clojure/clojure-contrib.jar:/home/nimred/.clojure/jline-0_9_5.jar:/home/nimred/.clojure/clj-env-dir:/opt/java/lib"

19:29 user=>

19:29 pppaul isn't it OK ?

19:29 pppaul: it looks ok

19:30 nimred: within emacs it doesn't work

19:30 a *sldb clisp/0* buffer is opened

19:31 pppaul: without swank: M-x clojure-mode, M-x inferior-lisp, and run it in that

19:31 nimred: that contains : http://sprunge.us/jDfP

19:32 pppaul: maybe you need to put slime into clojure-mode

19:32 try without swank/slime first

19:32 Raynes: ,(-> Thread pr-str symbol resolve pr-str symbol)

19:32 clojurebot: java.lang.Thread

19:32 pppaul: your classpath is alright, though

19:32 Raynes: Is there a better way to do that that I'm brainfarting on right now?

19:33 pppaul: lol

19:33 nimred: pppaul http://lisp.pastebin.com/XDmepuJj

19:33 pppaul: ,(pr-str Thread)

19:33 clojurebot: "java.lang.Thread"

19:33 Raynes: It feels like there has to be a better way to get a symbol from a resolved class.

19:33 :\

19:34 pppaul: just use what you have and make a function out of it so you don't have to look at it ever again :P

19:34 Raynes: :p

19:34 pppaul: (doc resolve)

19:34 clojurebot: "([sym]); same as (ns-resolve *ns* symbol)"

19:35 nimred: pppaul any idea ?

19:36 pppaul: that didn't really tell me anything

19:37 you could load the file, and go into clojure-mode, then C-M-x expression

19:37 see if you get errors doing that

19:37 *(each expression)

19:38 Raynes: Everyone digging try-clojure.org's new design? http://try-clojure.org/

19:39 pppaul: (str (reve­rse "!dlr­ow ,olle­H"))

19:39 Raynes: Also got somebody working on a tryhaskellish interactive Javascript tutorial.

19:39 pppaul: ,(str (reve­rse "!dlr­ow ,olle­H"))

19:39 clojurebot: java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: reve�rse in this context

19:39 pppaul: woaaaaaaaah

19:40 the tutorial is nice, needs more sexiness and a link to clojuredocs

19:40 (doc reverse)

19:40 clojurebot: "([coll]); Returns a seq of the items in coll in reverse order. Not lazy."

19:40 pppaul: ,(str (reve­rse "!dlr­ow ,olle­H"))

19:40 clojurebot: java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: reve�rse in this context

19:40 pppaul: ,(str (reverse "!dlr­ow ,olle­H"))

19:40 clojurebot: "(\\H \\� \\e \\l \\l \\o \\, \\space \\w \\o \\� \\r \\l \\d \\!)"

19:40 Raynes: The tutorial is mostly just a stub for now. It needs a rewrite and more content.

19:40 pppaul: look at that sexy hello world!

19:41 ,(apply (str (reverse "!dlr­ow ,olle­H")) vector)

19:41 clojurebot: java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn

19:41 nimred: Clojure> (System/ge tProperty "java .class.pat h")

19:41 bhenry: ,(apply str (reverse "!dlrow ,olleH"))

19:41 nimred: java.lang.SecurityException: Tried to call: getProperty on class java.lang.System which is not allowed.

19:41 clojurebot: "Hello, world!"

19:41 nimred: on http://try-clojure.org/

19:42 pppaul: cus it's in a sandbox

19:42 hiredman: pppaul: feel free to play with your own repl

19:42 belun: probably is an appled

19:42 applet

19:42 Raynes: belun: It isn't an applet.

19:42 pppaul: html5?

19:42 6?

19:42 Raynes: nimred: It's sandboxed. You can't do dangerous stuff.

19:42 belun: what's a sandbox ?

19:42 Raynes: pppaul: Javascript.

19:42 pppaul: html5 is javascript

19:43 belun: wut ?

19:43 Raynes: belun: It's something that prevents execution of dangerous code.

19:43 nimred: ok

19:43 pppaul: wikipedia (sandbox)

19:43 all of my code is dangerous

19:43 belun: irc (sandbox) :P

19:45 pppaul: i'm learning apply!

19:45 :D

19:46 nimred: wich way to run C-M-x expression ?

19:46 pppaul: cursor over the expression (def....) and C-M-x

19:46 the inferior-lisp needs to be running

19:47 nimred: Ctrl+Alt+x ?

19:48 *** - EVAL: undefined function DEF

19:48 bhenry: nimred: mostly. sometimes Meta is ESC

19:48 oh

19:49 hiredman: your slime is running common lisp

19:49 nimred: hiredman isn't it OK ?

19:49 hiredman: OK ?

19:49 this is #clojure

19:50 clojure is not common lisp

19:50 if you want help with common lisp you should find a common lisp irc channel

19:50 pppaul: he wants to run clojure

19:51 M-x clojure-mode

19:51 make sure your inferior-lisp is pointing to clojure

19:51 Raynes: And he wants to set it all up manually, for whatever reason. Gentoo user in the making.

19:51 pppaul: M-x describe-variable -> inferior-lisp (click on the customize button)

19:52 Wilduck: nimred: are you following http://riddell.us/ClojureSwankLeiningenWithEmacsOnLinux.html? Because use that tutorial to get slime/swank/clojure working on debian. What OS are you using?

19:53 *I used

19:53 nimred: Wilduck ArchLinux

19:53 Wilduck: I see. Where in the tutorial are you getting stuck?

19:54 If slime is running common lisp, instead of clojure, I'm guessing that you don't have a swank server running that you're connecting to

19:55 ~$ lein swank

19:55 clojurebot: leiningen is a build tool designed not to set your hair on fire (http://github.com/technomancy/leiningen)

19:55 Wilduck: at the command line should start the swank server

19:55 pppaul: i like it when a pretty girl sets my hair on fire

19:55 Wilduck: and then in emacs M-x slime-connnect will connect to it

19:56 nimred: what should inferior-lisp-program be set to ?

19:56 /PATH/TO/clojure.jar ?

19:56 pppaul: clojure

19:56 what you use on the command line to run clojure

19:57 mine is set to clj, which is a script in /usr/bin

19:57 Wilduck: I never set inferior-lisp-program when using swank

19:57 pppaul: i've never used swank

19:58 maybe i should start ^_^

19:58 Wilduck: Although I (sort of) remember that step from when I set up SBCL

19:59 nimred: can you pastebin your .emacs?

19:59 or at least the relevant sections?

20:01 pppaul: anyone used cake?

20:01 nimred: Wilduck http://clojure.pastebin.com/KDt9Fmq0

20:03 running C-M-x gives me : "Process lisp does not exist"

20:03 pppaul: M-x inferior-lisp

20:05 Wilduck: intersting...

20:05 nimred: Wilduck ?

20:06 user=> (def animator (agent nil))

20:06 (def animator (agent nil))

20:06 #'user/animator

20:06 running M-x inferior-lisp

20:07 Wilduck: sorry, it's just that I didn't set the inferior-lisp-program, and am instead starting a swank server any time I want to use slime. So I'm not sure what's going wrong for you

20:07 but I'm curious

20:08 nimred: Wilduck looks like working

20:08 no ?

20:09 Wilduck: sorry?

20:09 Raynes: inferior-lisp != slime

20:09 Wilduck: Raynes: right

20:10 I may be trying to solve a different problem than nimred is having

20:10 I just saw that he was using the same tutorial that I used

20:10 nimred: http://clojure.pastebin.com/eZVNJEKV

20:11 Wilduck: but setting inferior lisp is not a part of said tutorial...

20:11 I think I might be in over my head, I'm pretty new at this...

20:13 nimred: Wilduck did http://riddell.us/ClojureSwankLeiningenWithEmacsOnLinux.html completly worked for you ?

20:13 if so on which distribution ?

20:13 and when did you run this tuto ?

20:13 Wilduck: it worked, and I'm using debian stable

20:14 as of a few weeks ago

20:14 arch is *definitely* more bleeding edge, so I don't see why it wouldn't work if it worked on debian stable

20:15 nimred: ok let's redo. I perhaps missed something

20:15 Wilduck: It took me 5+ tries, but it ended up working

20:20 Raynes: Yay! My VPS is back up. Here comes teh sexpbot!

20:20 eee: yo long time since i've been here. giving clojure another look

20:20 can't get my multimethod to work

20:20 and no example looks like my sitruation

20:21 what if you have two arguments. the first arg is always the same or you don't care. but you want to switch on the second argument

20:21 no one ever has a two-argument example for multimethods

20:21 chouser: (defmulti myfoo (fn [_ x] x))

20:22 eee: i have to write a custom function?

20:22 chouser: you always have to provide a function

20:22 hiredman: perish the thought

20:22 eee: nah, sometimes you just say the type

20:22 hiredman: type is a function

20:22 eee: here's my case: (defmethod heap-add java.util.Map [a-heap data-pri-map]

20:23 the data-pri-map is the thing to switch on

20:23 a-heap is always the same

20:23 chouser: (defmulti myfoo (fn [_ x] (type x)))

20:23 Raynes: Hrm.

20:24 I think I broke my database.

20:24 eee: thanks chouser. i'll try to understand that

20:25 tomoj: technomancy: are you aware of github ssl problems with lein?

20:25 maybe it's just me

20:25 chouser: (defmulti heap-add (fn [a-heap data-pri-map] (type data-pri-map)))

20:25 Raynes: $seen amalloy

20:26 sexpbot: amalloy was last seen quitting 17 hours, 55 minutes ago.

20:26 Raynes: There we go.

20:27 eee: thanks. I think I would have assumed it would be different, like in java where the types are with the variables, pairwise, in the signature

20:29 rata_: hi

20:30 eee: it didn't work

20:30 says the syntax has now changed

20:31 is there somewhere I can cut-n-paste some code?

20:33 nimred: Wilduck :

20:33 [~/opt/clojure-contrib]->> cp target/clojure-contrib*.jar ~/.clojure/clojure-contrib.jar

20:33 zsh: no matches found: target/clojure-contrib*.jar

20:33 :/

20:35 after having run `git clone git://github.com/clojure/clojure-contrib.git`

20:35 hiredman: you really should just follow the swank-clojure readme

20:36 nimred: and `cd clojure-contrib && mvn package`

20:37 eee: http://pastebin.ca/1984944

20:37 still confused

20:38 here's the error: Unable to resolve symbol: a-heap in this context

20:42 nimred: ok using `git clone git://github.com/richhickey/clojure-contrib.git ` it works

20:42 eee: anyone know a good resource on multimethods? I guess I could always write my own dispatcher

20:42 a map of types to functions

20:47 hi. sorry to bug people, but anyone just entering see what's wrong with this code? http://pastebin.ca/1984944

20:53 i tried this, too: http://pastebin.ca/1984952

20:53 no luck :(

20:53 Wilduck: nimred: I guess I remember having to play around with which repositories I was downloading from

20:54 puredanger: eee: what error do you see? are you not seeing the dispatch go the right place? if so, it sometimes helps to break your dispatch function out as a top-level defn and test it separately

20:54 Raynes: DME heard my cries, and claims to have moved me to a better server with less clients, and promises to ensure stability.

20:54 * Raynes crosses his fingers.

20:55 eee: i don't know the most basic thing about dispatch when I have two args. the second arg is the one to switch on, but i still need the first arg

20:55 Wilduck: nimred: I actually started out by following http://riddell.us/ClojureWithEmacsSlimeSwankOnUbuntu.html

20:55 puredanger: eee: at a glance it also appears you are trying to call .insert on a java.util.Map, which does not exist

20:55 eee: i get "unable to resolve heap-add

20:55 the insert is on my heap

20:55 Wilduck: and dug around for all sorts of different repositiories

20:55 eee: i have a heap

20:55 Wilduck: somehow I found a combination that worked

20:55 eee: and I want to be able to insert based on input as a map

20:56 or on a pair

20:56 puredanger: eee: for a dispatch function that switches on second arg, you want: (defmulti heap-add [x y] (class y)) usually

20:56 hiredman: no you don't

20:56 you want to go read the multimethod docs on clojure.org

20:56 eee: i had that already

20:56 it did not work

20:57 i have been on clojure.org for an hour

20:57 too dumb

20:58 The syntax for defmulti has changed. Example: (defmulti name dispatch-fn :default dispatch-value) (jc_pheap.clj:34)

20:59 it's very very difficult in clojure to discern literal things from variables

20:59 i never know what i am supposed to replace

21:00 puredanger: eee: sorry, meant: (defmulti heap-add (fn [x y] (class y))

21:02 then you would (defmethod heap-add java.util.Map [x y] ( ... whatever where y is a Map ... ) )

21:03 nimred: ok

21:03 http://riddell.us/ClojureSwankLeiningenWithEmacsOnLinux.html? doesn't work

21:03 http://riddell.us/ClojureOnUbuntu.html doesn't

21:03 eee: getting closer

21:04 now i got yelled at because my dispatch is for java.util.Vector but [] is a persistentVector

21:05 Wilduck: nimred: The first one is the tutorial I ended up using, although I'm pretty sure the location of some of the repositories is slightly out of date, a fact I failed to remember earlier

21:05 the second one definitely didn't work, but it was the tutorial I tried first

21:06 nimred: eh guys i won't spend a week to get clojure/sllime/swank working using emacs

21:08 puredanger: eee: you could switch on something like Indexed (in clojure.lang) if you want to call nth on it

21:09 nimred: so wich repository is up to date ?

21:09 which one to use ?

21:09 Wilduck: which one isn't working?

21:09 nimred: why isn't a GOOD OFFICIAL tutorial to get it installed ?

21:09 the one on tutorial

21:10 git://github.com/clojure/clojure-contrib.git doesn't work

21:11 Wilduck: didn't you say git clone git://github.com/richhickey/clojure-contrib.git worked for you?

21:11 nimred: sure it worked

21:11 but git://github.com/clojure/clojure-contrib.git didn't

21:12 puredanger: eee: or maybe this is just generally the wrong path...not sure I understand what you're doing really

21:12 hiredman: richhickey/clojure and clojure-contrib are not the right repos any more

21:13 nimred: and git://github.com/clojure/clojure-contrib.git is the one mentioned in tuto

21:13 hiredman so which one ?

21:13 shit is human food

21:14 write an official tuto and track it up to date...

21:14 time to go to bed

21:14 shit is human food

21:27 pppaul: nimred should use something other than emacs

21:29 the tutorials should be wikis, so they can be maintained

21:31 jrp: alright back at it. Ive installed leiningen from macports, and am trying to use it to start lein-vimclojure. When i start it up, I get a no class def found error for clojure/main, which means I think my classpath is screwed up. My classpath however, contains the clojure jars

21:34 tonyl: hello

21:37 hiredman: don't install anyting from a package manager, follow the installation instructions for lein from the readme

21:37 grab the clojure jar from the website

21:37 jrp: ok

21:37 hiredman: anything in package managers is out of date

21:38 rdeshpande: jrp: i installed clojure and leiningen from homebrew

21:38 jrp: then i installed vimclojure from the mercurial repo

21:38 pppaul: (vars)

21:38 &(vars)

21:38 sexpbot: java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: vars in this context

21:39 rdeshpande: cemerick: cool talk on continuous deployment

21:41 cemerick: rdeshpande: the talk or screencast? In either case, thanks :-)

21:41 pppaul: links?

21:43 cemerick: pppaul: http://cemerick.com/2010/11/02/continuous-deployment-of-clojure-web-applications/

21:43 pppaul: (clojure.contrib.math/abs 4) (fix please) :D

21:45 cemerick: pppaul: what's the problem?

21:46 &(clojure.contrib.math/abs 4)

21:46 sexpbot: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.contrib.math

21:46 cemerick: ,(clojure.contrib.math/abs 4)

21:46 clojurebot: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.contrib.math

21:46 cemerick: oh well

21:46 pppaul: need to use 'use'

21:46 cemerick: won't work in the sandboxes, I presume

21:46 &(require 'clojure.contrib.math)

21:46 sexpbot: java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clojure/contrib/math__init.class or clojure/contrib/math.clj on classpath:

21:46 cemerick: ,(require 'clojure.contrib.math)

21:46 clojurebot: java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clojure/contrib/math__init.class or clojure/contrib/math.clj on classpath:

21:46 pppaul: (use 'clojure.contrib.math (abs 5))

21:46 cemerick: no contrib in either bot?

21:47 pppaul: ,(use 'clojure.contrib.math (abs 5))

21:47 clojurebot: java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: abs in this context

21:47 cemerick: pppaul: what's the problem you're seeing?

21:47 pppaul: i'm trying to use namespaces without using 'use'

21:47 is that silly?

21:47 cemerick: You need to require them.

21:48 (require 'some.ns) (some.ns/some-fn …)

21:48 pppaul: see: http://clojure.org/libs

21:48 pppaul: (use 'clojure.contrib.ns_utils)

21:48 java.lang.Exception: namespace 'clojure.contrib.ns_utils' not found after loading '/clojure/contrib/ns_utils' (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0

21:49 cemerick: pppaul: it's ns-utils, not ns_utils

21:49 Raynes: &"still working?"

21:49 sexpbot: ⟹ "still working?"

21:49 pppaul: oh

21:50 Raynes: ,(require 'clojure.contrib.math)

21:50 clojurebot: java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clojure/contrib/math__init.class or clojure/contrib/math.clj on classpath:

21:50 Raynes: I can't figure that out.

21:50 Why wouldn't that work in a sandbox?

21:50 It doesn't work on my sandbox either, which is totally different.

21:51 cemerick: Raynes: that's just no contrib jar on the classpath, not a security exception

21:51 pppaul: i'm trying to use (vars)

21:51 Raynes: It works in my new sandboxing library (sexpbot doesn't use that).

21:51 cemerick: Right, but there is.

21:51 &(clojure.contrib.json/pprint-json "")

21:51 sexpbot: ⟹ ""nil

21:51 cemerick: oh, that's interesting

21:51 &(System/getProperty "java.class.path")

21:51 sexpbot: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method found: getProperty for class java.lang.Class

21:52 cemerick: wha?

21:52 Raynes: Aw man.

21:52 I introduced a new bug in clj-sandbox.

21:52 I'm actually working on my own sandboxing library. Not ready for sexpbot though.

21:52 You can require clojure.contrib.math in it. :>

21:53 cemerick: I'll leave you to figuring it out then ;-)

21:54 Raynes: I'll fix clj-sandbox after The Walking Dead. Then, I'll spend the rest of the night making clojail awesome.

21:56 pppaul: ,(ns-map 'user)

21:56 clojurebot: {sorted-map #'clojure.core/sorted-map, read-line #'clojure.core/read-line, re-pattern #'clojure.core/re-pattern, keyword? #'clojure.core/keyword?, val #'clojure.core/val, ProcessBuilder java.lang.Pro...

21:57 pppaul: sexy

22:07 ,(unquote 'quote)

22:07 clojurebot: java.lang.IllegalStateException: Var clojure.core/unquote is unbound.

22:07 pppaul: (doc unquote)

22:07 clojurebot: "; "

22:07 pppaul: hot stuff

22:15 ,(unchecked-add Integer/MAX_VALUE Integer/MAX_VALUE)

22:15 clojurebot: -2

22:16 tonyl: lol

22:16 ,Integer/MAX_VALUE

22:16 clojurebot: 2147483647

22:16 pppaul: ,(Math/abs Integer/MIN_VALUE)

22:16 clojurebot: -2147483648

22:17 tonyl: why the minus sign in both

22:17 that is weird

22:17 pppaul: abs doesn't always return a positive value

22:17 tonyl: the defies it's definition

22:17 clojurebot: Huh?

22:17 pppaul: it's like pandoras box

22:18 tonyl: i can see that

22:18 wonder if it is because of those big values

22:18 pppaul: it does bit manipulation, so when given min_value it screws up

22:19 tonyl: ,(Math/abs (+ 1 Integer/MIN_VALUE))

22:19 clojurebot: 2147483647

22:20 tonyl: ,(Math/abs (- 1 Integer/MIN_VALUE))

22:20 clojurebot: 2147483649

22:20 tonyl: ok

22:21 ,(Math/abs (+ Integer/MIN_VALUE))

22:21 clojurebot: -2147483648

22:21 pppaul: ,(unchecked-add 5 55555555555)

22:21 clojurebot: java.lang.ExceptionInInitializerError

22:21 pppaul: ,(unchecked-add 5555555555555 55555555555)

22:21 clojurebot: java.lang.ExceptionInInitializerError

22:21 pppaul: awww

22:21 bhenry: is there a shortcut for (remove nil? (map …))

22:21 pppaul: remove nil?

22:21 you aren't supposed to remove the nils

22:22 tonyl: i see it pretty concise

22:22 bhenry: i didn't know if there was a single function that did it

22:22 pppaul: make your own, then change if you find out later

22:23 i didn't see many functions for seq operations

22:23 Derander: I don't know how much clearer it can be

22:23 pppaul: most are very general

22:23 Derander: (remove-nils (map ..))

22:23 ?

22:23 ruby has Array#compact

22:23 pppaul: (doc remove-nils)

22:23 clojurebot: Cool story bro.

22:23 Derander: pppaul: was speculating

22:23 pppaul: clojure likes it's seqs fat

22:25 tonyl: &(remove nil? {:a 1 nil 2 :c 3 })

22:25 sexpbot: ⟹ ([:c 3] [nil 2] [:a 1])

22:25 tonyl: &(remove nil? {:a 1 :b nil :c 3 })

22:25 sexpbot: ⟹ ([:c 3] [:b nil] [:a 1])

22:26 tonyl: that doesn't seem to remove either by val or key, it takes a vector of the key and value pair

22:26 pppaul: (filter nil?)

22:26 tonyl: but as far as i know that wouldn't fly whey a map is constructed

22:26 &(filter nil? {:a 1 :b nil :c 3 })

22:26 sexpbot: ⟹ ()

22:26 bhenry: tonyl (map …) returns a seq. i wasn't removing nils from a map literal

22:26 tonyl: &(filter nil? {:a 1 nil 2 :c 3 })

22:26 sexpbot: ⟹ ()

22:27 tonyl: oh ok

22:27 :P

22:35 tomoj: &(remove (comp nil? val) {:a 1 :b nil :c 3}) ; ?

22:35 sexpbot: ⟹ ([:c 3] [:a 1])

22:35 bhenry: tomoj i like that

22:36 if i comp zero? val i won't need to worry about removing nils after.

22:38 oh wait.

22:38 i didn't read all of it i guess

22:38 tonyl: something like this

22:39 ,(remove (comp #(or (nil? %) (zero? %)) val) {:a 1 :b nil :c 3})

22:39 clojurebot: ([:a 1] [:c 3])

22:42 tobiassp: is there anything other than using weka directly to implement hierarchical clustering with a custom distance function (geospatial stuff) ?

22:48 rata_: is there anything like (take n (iterate f ...)) that calls f exactly n times?

22:49 amalloy: rata_: i don't think there's a built-in for it

22:49 somnium: rata_: dotimes or repeatedly?

22:50 amalloy: somnium: those don't do the same thing as iterate

22:51 somnium: yes, but his example would call f exactly n times, so I was guessing at the meaning of like

22:51 amalloy: i see

22:51 tonyl: i would say loop and recur would do your trick

22:56 rata_: ok, let's do it with loop and recur

22:59 amalloy: rata_: wait, i don't get it. is there something wrong with (take n (iterate f ...))? loop/recur will get you the same result with more work

23:00 tonyl: rata_: would f take any input?

23:00 rata_: amalloy: the wrong thing is chunking in this case, because f takes a lot of time to return

23:00 amalloy: rata_: iterate and take don't chunk

23:01 rata_: really? aren't they lazy? doesn't every lazy seq do chunking?

23:01 amalloy: yes; yes; no

23:02 rata_: oh ok... thanks :)

23:02 amalloy: compare (source map) with (source iterate)

23:09 Raynes: cemerick: http://try-clojure.org/

23:09 In case you haven't seen it yet.

23:09 Courtesy of apgwoz

23:09 cemerick: mmm, getting swankier :-)

23:10 so to speak, of course ;-)

23:11 Raynes: I have a guy on the interactive tutorial as well.

23:11 LauJensen will be pleased.

23:12 rata_: Raynes: I've just spotted a type, in the second line of the second paragraph of the tutorial... it should say "independently"

23:12 Raynes: He was the first one to be very vocal about tryclojure's ugliness. He actually helped me with the original design.

23:12 rata_: hahahaha a typo

23:12 Raynes: rata_: Probably plenty of them. That tutorial is mostly just a stub.

23:12 rata_: ok

23:12 Raynes: Fogus made some changes to it a while back. Probably his typo.

23:12 >:)

23:12 * Raynes laughs maniacally.

23:13 amalloy: Raynes: is this the "official" tutorial, or is someone working on a complete replacement?

23:13 if it's going to be the real thing i'll do some copy-editing

23:13 Raynes: amalloy: Once the interactive tutorial is ready, the tutorial will be rewritten, fixed, changed, mutilated, or any number of things to make it better.

23:14 It needs more content too.

23:14 amalloy: k. so i shouldn't spend any significant time on it till then? let me know when it's ready for proofing

23:14 Raynes: The guy is just working on an interactive tutorial. The actual content for that tutorial isn't his responsibility.

23:14 amalloy: Will do! :D

23:18 tomoj: anyone using nutch?

23:36 Intertricity_: How long before ClojureCLR gets to see the light of day? In a clojure box >.>

23:36 Just like lispbox

23:41 rata_: is it right to do (time (let [x (f ...)] nil)) to compute how long f takes to run?

23:41 tonyl: or just (time (f ...)

23:41 s/)/))/

23:42 rata_: because I did it and it seemed to take like 3 secs but time said 0.07 millisecs

23:42 tonyl: I don't want the REPL to print the output

23:43 tonyl: time will always print the output

23:43 unlees you bind

23:43 bind *in*

23:43 amalloy: rata_: if anything is lazy, (time) will print how long it takes to get the head of the sequence, and then the repl will force the sequence so you can see it

23:44 rata_: amalloy: ok, then doall is what I need there

23:44 tonyl: no, it won't if you return nil insted of the output

23:44 amalloy: rata_: i'd use dorun, if you don't actually want the result

23:45 tonyl: ,(time (let [x (var rest)] nil))

23:45 clojurebot: "Elapsed time: 0.062 msecs"

23:45 amalloy: &(->> (range) (take 10000000) dorun time)

23:45 sexpbot: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method found: nanoTime for class java.lang.Class

23:45 amalloy: ,(->> (range) (take 10000000) dorun time)

23:45 rata_: tonyl: by output I mean the output of calling f

23:45 clojurebot: Execution Timed Out

23:45 tonyl: ooh ok

23:46 amalloy: rata_: dorun won't print the output, and it won't hold onto the head, but it won't return until it's consumed the whole seq

23:46 so it sounds like exactly what you want

23:46 rata_: yes, you're right :) it's exactly what I want

23:47 tonyl: is the # suffix in vars inside macros a convention or does the reader do something different with them?

23:47 amalloy: the reader

23:47 does super-magic

23:47 tonyl: what does it do with them?

23:48 Raynes: I'm fixing that bug.

23:48 rata_: mmmm... my code performs just a little slower than the prototype I wrote one year ago in python

23:49 what do you use to profile? I used visualvm, but it caused my code to run super-slow

23:49 I had to kill the app

23:55 tonyl: 'x#

23:55 ,'x#

23:55 clojurebot: x#

23:55 tonyl: &`x#

23:55 sexpbot: ⟹ x__5883__auto__

23:56 tonyl: what is the gain from a non-fully-qualified symbol and a qualified one?

23:57 &(gensym :wer)

23:57 sexpbot: ⟹ :wer5888

23:57 tonyl: &`(gensym :wer)

23:57 sexpbot: ⟹ (clojure.core/gensym :wer)

23:57 amalloy: ,(let [myns/x 1] myns/x)

23:57 clojurebot: java.lang.Exception: Can't let qualified name: myns/x

23:57 amalloy: tonyl: ^^

23:57 tonyl: oh mm

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