#clojure log - Mar 11 2009

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0:01 Raynes: I have a headache.

0:01 I need to read

0:01 It's hard to read with a headache.

0:01 :(

0:09 hiredman: ?

0:12 cooldude127: ok i have the nailgun server running, no idea how to get a repl

0:16 Raynes: Can someone explain to me how this http://paste.lisp.org/display/76793#1 would ever get to the recur? Now, I'm not all that smart and all but I can't see how it would ever get past the recursion before the recur.

0:16 I'm not all to well on Clojure evaluation apparently, or I'm just missing something because of this horrible headache.

0:18 hiredman: things in the do happen one after the other

0:18 cooldude127: Raynes: it looks like it should. after the first statement of the do occurs

0:18 Raynes: But from what I can see, wouldn't the evaluation start at the top once the do hit's the first recursion.

0:19 cmvkk: the first statement of the do will recur, but eventually that recurring will end, and when the stack unwinds back to that point the rest of the do will happen.

0:19 Raynes: s/./?/

0:19 hiredman: Raynes: but that recursion returns

0:19 Raynes: Oh that's neat.

0:19 That's pretty damn cool.

0:19 You guys explain things so well. <3

0:20 cooldude127: hiredman: i have a repl, but i get an error when i try to send a toplevel to it

0:20 says couldn't execute nail

0:21 hiredman: ng needs to be in your path

0:21 cooldude127: hiredman: it is

0:22 hiredman: oh wait, i think i found the problem

0:22 incompatible versions of nailgun. i thought i had to download it before i realized vimclojure bundles it, and my ng wasn't compatible with vimclojure

0:23 so does the preview window open everytime i evaluate something

0:25 Raynes: cooldude127: Old nailguns have a tendency to backfire and shoot nails into your eyes.

0:25 Always keep it uptodate.

0:26 cooldude127: lol

0:26 replaca: what's nailgun? (besides the fun weapon from Quake)

0:27 ayrnieu: it's a construction device based on the Quake weapon.

0:28 sohail: lol

0:28 hiredman: I personally prefer a palm nailer

0:28 replaca: I don't think that's what folks are talking about! o-o

0:47 * cooldude127 is trying to learn vim, and is convinced he will be more motivated if he has actual work he can do in it

0:50 duncanm: i think it's so funny that there are all these people learning a lisp, yet they go and use vi(m) instead of emacs

0:52 Raynes: duncanm: EMACS IS TEH BLOAT1!1

0:52 duncanm: whatever

0:53 you have like 2GB of RAM on your computer

0:53 Raynes: duncanm: It was a joke bro.

0:53 p_l: Raynes: if a person who says this to me runs Firefox as his main browser, he would have his organs slowly and painfully rearranged in artistic way

0:53 duncanm: Raynes: yeah, but it's such a common refrain

0:53 Cark: and a 3Ghz computer, still emacs is dog slow =/

0:53 Raynes: And I do have 2 GB on my computer...

0:53 What's wrong with that...

0:53 p_l: Cark: byte compile ?

0:53 duncanm: Raynes: start menu/gnome-panel/osx's dock probably all use *more* memory than emacs by now

0:54 p_l: Raynes: cause Firefox is the king of bloat. My personal record was ~1.6G

0:54 Cark: p_l : actually i'm using emacs all the way, but it _is_ slow

0:54 duncanm: Cark: what is it slow at doing?

0:54 and how many extensions do you use?

0:54 Cark: duncanm : writing a single very long line

0:54 p_l: Cark: can you break it?

0:54 duncanm: writing to where?

0:55 in the terminal, in X?

0:55 Raynes: I have netbeans with Enclojure, FireFox with 10 tabs, foxit reader with Programming Clojure, Thunderbird, Emacs with GHCi running in it and 3 Haskell buffers open, Digsby and the rest of the shit windows has open all under 1 gig on my 2 gb computer...

0:55 hiredman: pfft, only ten?

0:55 Cark: in a console buffer

0:55 * cooldude127 has been an emacs guy for a while, but wants to give vim a decent chance

0:55 Raynes: hiredman: It's a slow night.

0:55 Cark: GUI Emacs.

0:55 Cark: yes

0:55 i'm on windows ...

0:56 duncanm: there's a console version of emacs for windows?

0:56 cooldude127: does vim have anything like emacs' paredit, where it always keeps parentheses matched

0:56 Raynes: duncanm: I believe so.

0:56 Cark: duncanm : there is one, i never used it though

0:56 Raynes: Somewhere...

0:56 p_l: Raynes: how long has your Firefox been running? certainly not two weeks :)

0:56 Raynes: p_l: 3 weeks.

0:56 duncanm: Cark: oh, if it's slow inside a buffer running cmd.exe, the problem might be somewhere else

0:56 Raynes: netbeans has been open for a whooping 12 days.

0:57 p_l: Raynes: wow.

0:57 Cark: nah that's an emacs problem ... anyways, i try to avoid it, but get bitten sometimes

0:57 Raynes: I'm surprised it's still running after 12 days.

0:57 duncanm: hmm

0:57 Cark: like cooldude i would like to give vim a chance

0:57 * p_l proactively restarts firefox, sometimes few times a day, to avoid another OOM Killer problem

0:57 duncanm: i don't really care for editor-wars, but after using emacs, it's hard to switch, mostly because of the ease of doing C-x 2 and what not

0:57 durka42: cooldude127: autoclose.vim. gets annoying sometimes though. surround.vim has some of the structural editing keybindings but none of the automagic

0:58 * durka42 has to start firefox first when rebooting the computer, otherwise it will crash trying to restore the session

0:58 Raynes: I gave Vim a chance, the editor is l33t but I prefer modes instead of scripts.

0:58 Cark: duncanm : i'm sold on emacs ... just whish it was a bit faster

0:59 duncanm: Cark: i'm really surprised that it's slow for you

0:59 Raynes: He's lying.

0:59 Cark: !

0:59 * p_l wishes for multithreaded emacs

0:59 Raynes: Cark: Just kidding bro <3

0:59 Cark: =)

1:00 Raynes: Hey I need yer opinionz. Would this be better with an explicit loop .. recur or is it cool the way it is? http://paste.lisp.org/display/76793#1

1:00 hiredman: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/81a24e488491e8ff <-- c.l.l posting on lisp+vim tips

1:00 Raynes: I like it the way it is. :-)

1:01 duncanm: Raynes: oh, well, you'll blow the stack if n is too big

1:02 Raynes: if it were scheme, you'd be fine

1:02 Raynes: But a loop recur would be ugly :\

1:02 I think...

1:02 duncanm: Raynes: well, that's why we want TCO in the JVM

1:02 once there's TCO in the JVM, loop/recur can go away

1:03 Chouser: but thankfully it won't.

1:03 Raynes: Hrm.

1:03 duncanm: Chouser: you're against it?

1:04 * Raynes cries on Chouser's shoulder as he adds an explicit loop recur.

1:04 Chouser: no, I'm in favor of TCO, but I'm also in favor of loop/recur

1:04 duncanm: Chouser: well, of course - without TCO, loop/recur is the only way to go ;-P

1:05 Raynes: Chouser: Could you hold me? Just a little O.O

1:05 cooldude127: loop recur is awesome

1:05 duncanm: huh?

1:05 cooldude127: named LETs are even nicer

1:05 cooldude127: great for when the loop arguments don't match the function arguments

1:05 duncanm: i don't always feel like naming my helpers

1:05 duncanm: cooldude127: name it loop then

1:06 cooldude127: at that point, why not just have the loop form?

1:06 it makes it clear what the point is

1:06 Chouser: Even after TCO, I'll use 'recur' whenever I can.

1:06 duncanm: cooldude127: do you know about tail call optimization?

1:06 cooldude127: yes

1:06 duncanm: Chouser: recur is a special macro that looks back?

1:07 Chouser: If I believe I'm in the tail position and use 'recur', the compiler will flag me if I'm wrong.

1:07 'recur' is a special form.

1:07 cooldude127: TCO is great, but i don't really mind loop/recur

1:07 and i love having it when the signatures don't match

1:07 it's very succint

1:07 duncanm: what happens when the loops are nested?

1:07 cooldude127: duncanm: actually, that has yet to come up for me

1:07 Chouser: recur is simple and explicit. It lets the reader know that I'm certain there won't be any stack overflow here.

1:08 hiredman: recur recurs to the closest frame

1:08 duncanm: one of the scary things one could do with named lets is that it allows you go jump to whichever label you want to

1:08 cooldude127: well, i need sleep

1:09 hiredman: duncanm: that is mutual recursion, so you can use letfn or trampoline

1:09 Chouser: There are cases where recur is insufficient, so you still want TCO.

1:09 ayrnieu: (let 10 ... (let 20 ... (let 30 ... (goto 20) ...

1:09 duncanm: hiredman: loop/recur is basically a trampoline, isn't it?

1:09 ayrnieu: (this may require nonstandard indentation)

1:10 hiredman: duncanm: I dunno how it is represented in byte code

1:10 duncanm: ayrnieu: if you're writing Scheme, you can replace (goto 20) with (20 ...)

1:10 Cark: duncanm : more like a rebinding goto i think

1:10 Chouser: loop/recur is basically a while loop

1:10 or yes, a goto

1:10 compiles down to very efficient java bytecode

1:11 duncanm: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/3106

1:11 hiredman: trampoline on the other hand is a very simple function, who's source I just looked at today

1:11 duncanm: trampoline and loop/recur are different mechanisms

1:11 ayrnieu: duncanm - tsk, I have higher standards of readability than that!

1:12 duncanm: hiredman: but the idea of a trampoline is just a loop (for, while)

1:12 isn't it?

1:12 hiredman: ~def trampoline

1:13 ,(doc trampoline)

1:13 clojurebot: "([f] [f & args]); trampoline can be used to convert algorithms requiring mutual recursion without stack consumption. Calls f with supplied args, if any. If f returns a fn, calls that fn with no arguments, and continues to repeat, until the return value is not a fn, then returns that non-fn value. Note that if you want to return a fn as a final value, you must wrap it in some data structure and unpack it after trampoline

1:13 duncanm: hiredman: i wasn't referring to the clojure-specific definition

1:13 ayrnieu: hiredman, duncanm is talking about trampolines, not about the clojure function named 'trampoline'.

1:13 duncanm: *

1:13 * Used in some LISP implementations, a trampoline is a loop that iteratively invokes thunk-returning functions.

1:14 Chouser: Clojure's loop/recur does not use thunks or closures of any kind.

1:14 duncanm: ok ok

1:15 Chouser: but it does avoid consuming stack frames, which trampolines also do.

1:42 slashus21: Having (re-seq #"\w+" message) really screws up the code highlighting in enclojure

1:43 when you reload a dispatch function to a multimethod do you have to reload the (defmulti method too?

1:43 It seems to be the behavior

1:49 Raynes: Anyone feel like converting this to use loop recur instead of recursion? http://paste.lisp.org/display/76793#1 I can't think with this headache. :|

1:49 * Raynes searches for medication.

2:03 catch23: anyone know the proper way for doing object serialization on clojure objects? (sequences, maps etc)

2:05 using normal java-style object serialization doesn't seem to work out of the box... or at least it failed on my persistentarraymap of just strings

2:05 maacl: Can anyone help me with getting a emacs/slime setup for working with compojure up and running - slime works with clojure and i can run the compojure app from the commandline via a launch script, but I cannot compile inside emacs - get missing source file. installed clojure using cljoure-install

2:06 Cark: catch32 : try printing with *print-readbly* bound to true

2:06 catch32 : then just read the string

2:06 hiredman: ,(doc prn)

2:06 clojurebot: "([& more]); Same as pr followed by (newline). Observes *flush-on-newline*"

2:06 hiredman: ugh

2:07 ,(doc pr)

2:07 clojurebot: "([] [x] [x & more]); Prints the object(s) to the output stream that is the current value of *out*. Prints the object(s), separated by spaces if there is more than one. By default, pr and prn print in a way that objects can be read by the reader"

2:07 Cark: ,(pr (sorted-map :a 1))

2:07 clojurebot: {:a 1}

2:07 Cark: no good

2:08 you might want *print-dup* true i guess

2:08 ,(doc *print-dup*)

2:08 clojurebot: "; When set to logical true, objects will be printed in a way that preserves their type when read in later. Defaults to false."

2:08 hiredman: it depends

2:08 I just use prn, because I don't really care what kind of hash I get back

2:09 catch23: so prn is good? I've been using prn for just debugging print tasks... I guess I don't care too much about the types either

2:10 hiredman: prn will try to print an object in a away that can be read by read

2:10 Cark: just keep in mind it won't work for java objects

2:10 and functions

2:12 catch23: kk

2:13 hiredman: clojurebot: spin?

2:13 clojurebot: Titim gan �ir� ort.

2:13 hiredman: clojurebot: roulette

2:13 clojurebot: click

2:13 hiredman: clojurebot: roulette

2:13 clojurebot: click

2:13 hiredman: clojurebot: roulette

2:13 clojurebot: click

2:13 hiredman: clojurebot: roulette

2:13 clojurebot: click

2:13 hiredman: the suspense is killing me

2:13 clojurebot: roulette

2:13 clojurebot: click

2:13 hiredman: clojurebot: roulette

2:13 clojurebot: click

2:13 hiredman: clojurebot: roulette

2:13 clojurebot: bang

2:13 hiredman: !

2:14 cmvkk: oh god

2:14 now all you need is a trivia module.

2:14 and maybe a random dice throw.

2:14 hiredman: 1d4+3

2:14 clojurebot: 6

2:16 catch23: Cark: you think prn is the same as doing .toString() on the object?

2:16 hiredman: it is not

2:16 well

2:16 actually

2:17 ,(.toString {:a 1})

2:17 clojurebot: "{:a 1}"

2:17 Raynes: ,(filter #(if (= (rem % 3) 0) true false) (range 1 1000))

2:17 clojurebot: (3 6 9 12 15 18 21 24 27 30 33 36 39 42 45 48 51 54 57 60 63 66 69 72 75 78 81 84 87 90 93 96 99 102 105 108 111 114 117 120 123 126 129 132 135 138 141 144 147 150 153 156 159 162 165 168 171 174 177 180 183 186 189 192 195 198 201 204 207 210 213 216 219 222 225 228 231 234 237 240 243 246 249 252 255 258 261 264 267 270 273 276 279 282 285 288 291 294 297 300 303 306 309 312 315 318 321 324 327 330 333 336 339 342 345

2:17 hiredman: I would not count on it being

2:17 Raynes: you don't need the if

2:17 Raynes: I just realized that.

2:17 It's a predicate -.-

2:18 Cark: catch32 : why would you use .toString ?

2:18 Raynes: My headache is easing, I should just go to bed, but I thought I'd solve Euler problem 1 before sleepytiem.

2:18 hiredman: Raynes: do it with for

2:18 ~for

2:18 clojurebot: for is not used often enough

2:19 slashus21: list comprehension is awesome

2:19 Raynes: But why ._.

2:19 hiredman: because for is way cool

2:19 Raynes: hiredman: is your single objective in life to make me stay up longer? :|

2:20 hiredman: ,(for [x (range 100) :when (= (rem x 3) 0)] x)

2:20 clojurebot: (0 3 6 9 12 15 18 21 24 27 30 33 36 39 42 45 48 51 54 57 60 63 66 69 72 75 78 81 84 87 90 93 96 99)

2:21 Raynes: Well now that you went ahead and ruined for me...

2:23 (for [x (range 1 1000) :when (= (rem x 3) 0)] x) eureka.

2:23 And I did it without looking at hiredmans :D

2:24 Me go sleepy now.

2:24 * Raynes goes to bed

2:24 cmvkk: i like that problem...it reminds me of FizzBuzz.

2:24 is there a clojure fizzbuzz solution repository somewhere? i hope so.

9:07 gnuvince: Hi

9:07 In EDT time, what time does Rich's QCon talk start?

9:08 It says 14:15 on the website, so that'd be 9:15 here?

9:08 marklar: gnuvince: its in london?

9:08 gnuvince: yeah

9:09 marklar: sounds right then :)

9:09 gnuvince: I was wondering if they have daylight saving time too

9:09 marklar: well, its 1pm there now

9:10 so I guess 1015 EST

9:10 is it being broadcast?

9:35 danlarkin: don't see links for streaming

9:45 cemerick: has anyone tried driving a browser DOM with clojure within an applet?

9:48 Chouser: cemerick: almost: http://clojurescript.n01se.net/

9:48 that includes an applet that provides functionality to some javascript which in turn drives the DOM

9:48 cemerick: Chouser: Too bad you can't distill all of our regular Java codebase down to javascript, too!

9:48 ah, I didn't realize that

9:49 Chouser: hrm, the applet fails to load for me. OS X, FF3

9:49 Chouser: that javascript was produced from clojurescript sources, but that's probably beside the point of your question.

9:49 yeah, none of my clojure applets work on Mac

9:49 I haven't tracked down why yet.

9:49 cemerick: that's interesting

9:52 oh, isn't the applet tag semi-deprecated? I thought object was the way to go these days...

9:52 * cemerick shouldn't be dispensing any kind of applet-related speculation/advice

9:54 cemerick: we need to make a GUI decision in the next couple of weeks, and I'm looking at titanium as a possibility. Titanium + a "back end" applet + DOM scriptability from that applet might be a nifty combination.

9:55 Holcxjo: So, has anybody found links for streaming of the talk? Would surpise me. They charge you ��� (that's $$ with the current exchange rate) to see the talks in person....

9:56 I opted for the free option and will hear his talk at SkillsMatter to the London Java nerds...

9:56 StartsWithK: cemerick: jnlp from webstart is a way to go for applets

9:57 also, while i didn't test this with clojure, proguad is something to try

9:57 cemerick: StartsWithK: the point is, we wouldn't be using swing for the UI -- that'd be entirely browser DOM

9:57 StartsWithK: it could minimize your applets to only copule of kb

9:57 cemerick: titanium is webkit wrapped up so that you can deploy a "rich browser-based application" as a self-contained thick client

10:00 StartsWithK: jnlp will let you control heap size and will jvm run in separate process (with jre6u10+), its more than just webstart configuration, also applet can be cached on client side it ftat is what you need

10:00 just a suggestion

10:01 cemerick: StartsWithK: Sure, thanks. I've used webstart before. However, distribution isn't an issue -- this is going to be thick client that is downloaded and installed, anyway. I'm just looking at alternatives to swing.

10:02 StartsWithK: maybe some other gui toolkit fo java

10:05 maacl: Could someone help getting compojure to compile from within emacs? I have the compojure jar in my classpath and I can run the compojure examples from the commandline using a script

10:07 AWizzArd: maacl: why don't you want to use ant for compiling compojure?

10:07 would it not be easier to simply cd into the compojure dir ant type "ant"?

10:07 maacl: AWizzArd: sorry expressing myself badly, want to compile the compojure example

10:07 AWizzArd: sorry

10:08 AWizzArd: what is your *compile-path*?

10:09 ,*compile-path*

10:09 clojurebot: nil

10:09 AWizzArd: (binding [*compile-path* "/this/is/in/my/classpath/"] (compile 'my.module))

10:09 maacl: "classes"

10:10 AWizzArd: And do you have a directory named classes on your system?

10:10 maacl: not at all

10:10 AWizzArd: I think it should at least be "/classes"

10:10 tell me one directory that you have in your classpath pls

10:11 maacl: "/Users/mac/src/clojure/clojure.jar"

10:11 AWizzArd: In emacs do: (System/getProperty "java.class.path")

10:11 StartsWithK: cemerick: https://pivot.dev.java.net/ never can remeber the name..

10:11 looks nice, has that web 2.0 look

10:12 AWizzArd: maacl: as you note, the clojure.jar is a .jar file and not a directory. What we need now is a directory that is in your classpath.

10:12 StartsWithK: but it is underdocumanted and experimental(?)

10:12 maacl: AWizzArd: I get "/Users/mac/src/clojure/clojure.jar:/Users/mac/Development/lib/compojure/compojure.jar"

10:12 AWizzArd: okay, that means there are only two .jar files in your classpath, but not a directory.

10:12 maacl: right

10:13 AWizzArd: Make a dir in Vista, such as: /Users/mac/clj_build/

10:13 * gnuvince telephatically wishes good luck to rhickey!

10:13 AWizzArd: C:\Users\mac\clj_build

10:13 gnuvince: oh, you wished me good luck too, I felt it. Thanks :)

10:14 maacl: AWizzArd: ok

10:14 gnuvince: AWizzArd: are you giving a talk?

10:14 AWizzArd: gnuvince: no, but it seems you need more training in telepathy. You did not address exclusively Rich with it. Felt more like a global "good luck" thing.

10:15 gnuvince: Damn

10:15 AWizzArd: maacl: so, if you now created this directory, add it to your classpath. If you are using Emacs+Slime you would want to edit your .emacs file and add this new path to swank-clojure-extra-classpaths.

10:15 * gnuvince goes back to see Yoda

10:16 AWizzArd: ;-)

10:17 maacl: when you added this and restarted emacs+slime+clojure and do (System/getProperty "java.class.path") again, then you will see /Users/mac/clj_build/ as well showing up.

10:17 ,(System/getProperty "java.class.path")

10:17 clojurebot: java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.util.PropertyPermission java.class.path read)

10:19 cemerick: StartsWithK: looks interesting. The "kitchen sink" demo fails to impress, unfortunately.

10:19 maacl: AWizzArd: I added "(swank-clojure-config (setq swank-clojure-extra-classpaths (list "~/src/jars")))" to .emacs but I still get the same result

10:24 AWizzArd: maacl: then this did not help. Delete this entry from your .emacs again. Instead look at http://paste.lisp.org/display/71211

10:24 in your .emacs you can find (custom-set-variables

10:25 and then there are several things listed in there. Add '(swank-clojure-extra-classpaths "/path/clojure.jar" "/path/compojure.jar" "/Users/mac/clj_build/")

10:29 maacl: AWizzArd: ok

10:33 AWizzArd: still the same

10:38 gnuvince: If twitter is any indication, Rich's talk seems to be going well

10:38 " samaaron: Watching Ritch Hickey talk about Clojure at #QCon - very exciting stuff indeed :-) "

10:42 StartsWithK: will we get a video online?

10:51 maacl: AWizzArd: think I found the culprit : an old .emacs.elc file

10:55 AWizzArd: gnuvince: any comments about his hairstyle yet? ;)

10:57 maacl: AWizzArd: now I got the classpath working, but I still get the no sourcefile error

11:00 AWizzArd: maacl: did you use the binding?

11:01 maacl: AWizzArd: sorry, which binding?

11:01 AWizzArd: I use C-x C-e on the first expression

11:02 StartsWithK: lisppaste8: help

11:02 lisppaste8: To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.

11:03 StartsWithK pasted "Swing menu builder" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76826

11:04 cgrand: AWizzArd: no comment on the hairstyle yet. Ola Bini "Most of Rich Hickey's Clojure presentation finished at #qcon. As expected, it is excellent."

11:04 StartsWithK: shortcut for mnemonic and accelerator work for any javax.swing.AbstractButton, not just menu items

11:07 pjstadig: rich changed his hairstyle?

11:07 Chouser: cgrand: are you working on finger trees for clojure?

11:08 gnuvince: AWizzArd: whose?

11:09 cgrand: Chouser: nothing serious, just playing/learning at the moment. Why?

11:09 gnuvince: http://twitter.com/danny_l/status/1310947068

11:10 Chouser: just curious. since rich mentioned them I've been meaning to read up, but haven't yet.

11:12 cgrand: I skimmed over the paper when rich mentioned them and gave up but the two articles I linked to in my yestertweet made take another look

11:15 pjstadig: i think i studied finger trees

11:15 i forget

11:15 the thing i *do* remember from my graph algorithms class is splay trees

11:19 AWizzArd: maacl: binding *compile-path* to the path in which you want Clojure to put the resulting .class files.

11:25 maacl: AWizzArd: I get "java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError (index.clj:1)"

11:26 lisppaste8: maacl pasted "index.clj" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76828

11:27 maacl: AWizzArd: just pasted what I am trying to compile

11:32 brianh: cgrand: would you mind pasting those two links?

11:34 cgrand: brianh: http://blog.sigfpe.com/2009/01/fast-incremental-regular-expression.html and http://apfelmus.nfshost.com/monoid-fingertree.html

11:34 brianh: cgrand: thx!

11:39 maacl: AWizzArd: using the binding gives me: "java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError (index.clj:1)"

11:40 durka42: what is a monoid vs a monad?

11:44 Chousuke: the first comment on that regexp article: "In other words, deterministic finite state automata and thus regular expressions are actually monoid morphisms from the free monoid over the alphabet to a finite monoid, namely the monoid of endomorphisms on the states."

11:44 I'd say you're doing just fine if you can understand that.

11:45 cgrand: durka42: informally speaking a monoid is a function f of two args such that (= (f a (f b c)) (f (f a b) c))

11:46 durka42: okay

11:47 Chousuke: hmm

11:51 danlarkin: associativity!

11:55 maacl: AWizzArd: (all-ns) shows the compojure namespace - I really don't get this

11:56 cgrand: and it means that if f is associative then (reduce f init coll) does not depend on the order of the elements in (seq coll), this allows you to parallelize reduction or to incrementally compute a reduction (it reminds me of a blog post I read about CouchDb indexes)

11:59 Holcxjo: Well, the order of elements in the seq stil matters -- the order of evaluation doesn't, right? Being associative does not imply being commutative.

12:00 cgrand: Holcxjo: you're right

12:02 and CouchDb requires reduce functions to be associative and commutative http://damienkatz.net/2008/02/incremental_map.html

12:16 maacl: AWizzArd: any further hints? otherwise thanks for the effort, really appreciated

12:28 stimuli: howdy

12:28 is there a predicate to determine is a value can respond to seq ?

12:29 so, it would return true for all collections, and false otherwise

12:29 AWizzArd: maacl: I suggest you try a minimal example. Make a new .clj file containing only something like (ns com.domain.Application (:gen-class)) and maybe a function (defn foo [] 'works)

12:29 danlarkin: (doc coll?)

12:29 clojurebot: Returns true if x implements IPersistentCollection; arglists ([x])

12:29 AWizzArd: try to compile that. If you do so then com.domain.Application needs to be in your classpath as well, so add it to the swank-clojure-extra-classpaths list.

12:30 stimuli: danl : thanks

12:33 gnuvince: I'm getting a java.lang.VerifyError exception at line 0 in a Clojure file. What is that about?

12:36 leafw: gnuvince: recompile

12:37 gnuvince: ah

12:37 fixed it

12:38 maacl: AWizzArd: will give that a try

12:39 catch23: there's 3 methods in a class with the same name, overloaded by a single argument, how can I make the call specifying the type?

12:40 maacl: AWizzArd: just to be clear if my file is called simple.clj and is located in /Users/mac/Development/clojure/ what should the binding look like?

12:40 catch23: specifically, it's executorservice.submit, i'm guessing the fn can be cast to runnabletasks or callable, how can I cast my fn to a callable?

12:40 cemerick: catch23: (.someMethod obj #^Callable some-callable) should do it

12:41 catch23: cemerick: ah ok thanks

12:43 AWizzArd: maacl: it depends on how you call your namespace. If you have (ns com.domain.simple (:gen-class)) and your file is called simple.clj, then it should be located somewhere in your classpath. For example let's say you have C:\foo in your classpath. Then you need to make the dir C:\foo\com\domain\ and into that dir put the simple.clj.

12:44 maacl: then you can do (binding [*compile-path* "/foo/"] (compile 'com.domain.simple)). The resulting .class files can then be found in C:\foo\com\domain\.

13:35 maacl: AWizzArd: the simple.clj example works - I get simple$foo__1625.class simple.class and simple__init files in the correct directory

13:42 gnuvince: Was anyone at Rich's talk today?

13:43 Chouser: yeah, several people apparently.

13:43 but I don't know if any of them are here. ;-)

13:48 WizardofWestmarc: Did Rich say if it was going to be recorded and posted online or not?

13:48 Chouser: I've not heard anyone mention that they're sure of either.

13:50 danlarkin: I'm quite sure it'll be online

13:51 don't know the schedule though

13:52 Chouser: oh, great.

13:55 WizardofWestmarc: if it takes a while that's fine, I just want it sooner or later :)

13:55 seems like every time I see one of Rich's talks I pick up something new

13:56 Raynes: Is there a function like map that applies a function to 2 elements from a sequence instead of just one at a time?

13:57 WizardofWestmarc: map

13:57 just give it two lists

13:57 (map func (a b c) (d e f))

13:58 will call (func a d) (func b e) (func c f)

14:04 Chouser: ,(map + [1 2 3] [4 5 6])

14:04 clojurebot: (5 7 9)

14:05 Chouser: ,(map (fn [[a b] (+ a b)]) (partition 2 [1 2 3 4 5 6]))

14:05 clojurebot: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.Exception: Unsupported binding form: (+ a b)

14:05 Chouser: ,(map (fn [[a b]] (+ a b)) (partition 2 [1 2 3 4 5 6]))

14:05 clojurebot: (3 7 11)

14:06 WizardofWestmarc: ah ha, was trying to think of what function did that

14:06 it's partition

14:06 ,(partition 3 [1 2 3 4 5 6])

14:06 clojurebot: ((1 2 3) (4 5 6))

14:08 AWizzArd: maacl: good, then you have now seen the basics of how it works. You can go step by step and make your program more complex. Make it more and more into this compojure example that you found somewhere.

14:18 maacl: AWizzArd: yeah, it breaks the moment i introduce :use compojure

14:20 spaceman_stu: speaking of compojure, I'm getting a ClassNotFoundException: javax.servlet.http.Cookie error when I'm trying to run the example code. I'm guessing I'm doing something dense - any tips?

14:23 danlarkin: spaceman_stu: do you have the servlet-utils jar?

14:24 spaceman_stu: I'm betting it's a classpath thing. Thanks

14:24 leafw: anybody using vimclojure 2? Where should the local.properties go to? In the working dir, or the ~/.vim/ dir ?

14:31 durka42: leafw: ant needs local.properties when building vimclojure

14:31 put it in the same dir as build.xml

14:32 leafw: durka42: thanks

14:32 what I don't understand is why there isn't .jar included.

14:32 never mind

14:45 Lau_of_DK: Good evening gents

14:45 WizardofWestmarc: heya Lau, how goes?

14:46 Lau_of_DK: Times are interesting, my tasks at work that all require ~100% concentration :) You?

14:53 WizardofWestmarc: work day going by slowly

14:53 want to go home and hack on clojure

14:54 maacl: is the clojure.jar in compojure/deps broken ?

14:54 Lau_of_DK: WizardofWestmarc: Sounds familiar... from my old job :)

14:55 maacl: No, but its probably very old

14:55 danlarkin: WizardofWestmarc: aye I'm with you on that

14:55 maacl: Lau_of_DK: ok, I get an error when I try to use it with swank

14:56 leafw: vimclojure 2.0 isbroken .. or not very well tested. It's a pitty really

14:56 I'd love to use it

14:58 WizardofWestmarc: how useable is compojure currently anyway?

14:58 I've been working on something in django but it's early enough would still be easy to change

14:58 hiredman: clojurebot: latest?

14:58 clojurebot: latest is [1327 "fixed seque"]

14:58 hiredman: clojurebot: latest is 1327

14:58 clojurebot: c'est bon!

14:59 Lau_of_DK: WizardofWestmarc: Check out Madison Square Clabango then, Django port

14:59 But on the other hand, Compojure is not letting me down

15:00 maacl: Lau_of_DK: I get java.lang.ExceptionInInitializerError (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0) ? any ideas

15:03 durka42: leafw: are you referring to vimclojure after the merge with gorilla?

15:03 leafw: es

15:03 yes

15:03 durka42: it's... a bit rocky

15:03 under heavy development, shall we say

15:03 leafw: and the docs need chcking

15:03 durka42: (not by me)

15:04 leafw: for example, is it let g:clj_wants_gorilla = 1 or let clj_wants_gorilla = 1 (without the g) ?

15:04 different parts of the docs say different things

15:04 durka42: let g:clj_want_gorilla = 1

15:04 says my vimrc

15:05 leafw: makes sense, considering the previous let g:* commands

15:05 danlarkin: Lau_of_DK: you've got me saying clabango in my head, curse you!

15:08 leafw: durka42: also \p doesn't work, to close the scratch buffer

15:08 *sigh*

15:09 durka42: bah, works for me :\

15:09 i'm not any kind of vim expert

15:09 hiredman: I have no idea what this localleader thing is or how it works

15:09 leafw: I am reasonably savvy with vim

15:09 Lau_of_DK: maacl: That can be anything, try checking where the files in the project are being initialized

15:09 danlarkin: I appologize - But I guess now you know how I feel :)

15:09 leafw: the local leader is \ by default.

15:09 durka42: well i assume leafw's localleader works if he got the preview window open

15:09 Lau_of_DK: Have you upped Madison Square Clabango on Github yet?

15:09 leafw: \ef works, but \p doesn't.

15:10 hiredman: leafw: so? what does it do?

15:10 durka42: \p issued from the same window that \ef was

15:10 leafw: hiredman: \p should close the scratch buffer that any code evaluation opens.

15:10 durka42: I see. So its the other window which gets the focus though

15:11 also the editor locks up until the eval operation completes.

15:11 hiredman: erm, like :\p ?

15:11 durka42: well, when i do \ef the preview window opens but focus stays in the window with the file

15:11 hiredman: no, \ef in normal mode

15:11 leafw: durka42: now it did it -- not the first ime

15:12 durka42: i think the \ef semantics could use some tweaking anyway -- for me, after i do \ef i want the preview window closed soon (unless there are error messages in it) and the focus to the REPL so i can test things

15:13 danlarkin: Lau_of_DK: haven't had time to work on it in a handful of days, so no :-/

15:14 leafw: oh wow the repl now works.

15:14 \sr, I had forgotten -- it never worked before

15:14 te: Lau_of_DK: Have you heard anything more about Madison Square Clabango>

15:14 I'd really like to play with it

15:14 durka42: the repl is the best part :)

15:15 by the way, careful -- i don't think the repl has a timeout yet

15:16 Lau_of_DK: te, danlarking who you see chatting in the channel right now, is the creator of Madison Square Clabango

15:16 leafw: the repl deletes a line with control+w+w, instead of switching windows ...

15:16 durka42: C-ww in normal mode

15:16 Lau_of_DK: As I understand he's been a little lazy, but will recompense ASAP - so we can expect to see something on Github... when dan ? :)

15:17 te: danlarkin: Hola :)

15:17 leafw: durka42: I need some mental reworking, not used to a repl being an actual insert mode.

15:17 te: danlarkin: What's the word on Madison Square Clabango?

15:19 Lau_of_DK: danlarkin: We demand code! Upload Madison Square Clabango! :)

15:19 pjstadig: danlarkin: upload!

15:19 danlarkin: haha oh jeez

15:19 te: lol im sorry man

15:19 i just heard about your project and am anxious

15:19 i understand if you're not ready to release anything

15:19 Lau_of_DK: I dont

15:19 pjstadig: me either

15:19 danlarkin: well I just want to have reasonable test coverage before I upload

15:19 Lau_of_DK: Its a cool project, and you should get it up so we can contribute cool stuff and take over the web

15:19 te: lol well i really don't either

15:19 but for the sake of being cordial

15:20 durka42: tough crowd today

15:20 * te adjusts tie

15:20 te: i dont get no respect

15:20 pjstadig: yeah we want to take over the web with futuristic ninja robots

15:20 te: ^

15:20 Lau_of_DK: yea "Rails was walking along one day, when suddenly, CLABANGO! hit him"

15:20 te: danlarkin: could i say one thing?

15:20 Lau_of_DK: Sounds awesome

15:21 te: danlarkin: madison square clabango is by far, the greatest name for a project -- EVER

15:21 pjstadig: agreed

15:21 danlarkin: te: no. way.

15:21 te: yes dude. yes.

15:21 im serious. it's so damn memorable i can't quit thinking about "clabango".

15:21 rails = boring. clabango = awesome.

15:21 Lau_of_DK: Truer words are rarely spoken

15:21 pjstadig: clojure on clabango

15:22 danlarkin: madison!

15:22 Lau_of_DK: Square!

15:22 te: im from madison

15:22 pjstadig: CLABANGO!

15:22 hiredman: Yawfie

15:22 te: i like squares

15:22 pjstadig: it's totally an action word

15:23 ZIP!

15:23 POW!

15:23 te: wtf is clabango anyway?

15:23 pjstadig: CLABANGO!

15:23 te: is it just a made up word?

15:23 slashus2: clojure django?

15:23 te: ive googled clabango and all i could come up with is a log of this very irc channel talking about it

15:23 google whack

15:23 slashus2: It seems that I remember uddering that one day.

15:24 te: uddering is awesome

15:25 Lau_of_DK: Clabango is going to be the next big thing....

15:25 noidi: how can i do string interpolation in clojure?

15:25 te: yeah im fucking psyched

15:25 noidi: something like sprintf or python's % operator

15:26 te: im going to be making clabango shirts, hats, etc.

15:26 durka42: (doc format)

15:26 clojurebot: Formats a string using java.lang.String.format, see java.util.Formatter for format string syntax; arglists ([fmt & args])

15:26 noidi: thanks

15:26 Lau_of_DK: ,(format "hi subject # %d" 5)

15:26 clojurebot: "hi subject # 5"

15:26 te: clabango should be some kind of weird mascot

15:27 like an anteater with hi-tops for feet

15:27 not like -- wearing hi-tops, but literally, hi-tops for feet

15:27 durka42: i'm thinking one of those clapping monkeys

15:27 te: yeah that's too obvious though

15:27 you need a weird twist on it

15:27 a clapping monkey with Ronald Reagen's face

15:27 danlarkin: I think I'm sticking with Madison... you guys are free to use clabango as your mascot

15:28 te: danlarkin: is it Madison Square clabango, or Madison^2 Clabango

15:28 slashus2: clojure on acid

15:28 te: Clojure for Hardcore Drug Addicts

15:28 Lau_of_DK: danlarkin: You dont have to tell me twice

15:29 http://github.com/Lau-of-DK/clabango/tree/master

15:29 Chouser: you'd own the google search space for clabango. Not true of madison.

15:29 danlarkin: hahah

15:29 rsynnott: te: spitting image ronald reagan, or real ronald reagan

15:29 ?

15:29 Lau_of_DK: te, originally I suggested Clabango to Dan, he didnt like it, so he went with 'Madison', so I dubbed the project Madison Square Clabango. But since its up for grabs, I got it :)

15:30 te: rsynnott: real ronald reagan

15:30 rsynnott: as a clapping cymbal monkey

15:30 rsynnott: hopefully from at least a few years ago; it is unlikely that he has much face to speak of at this point

15:30 Raynes: I just discovered trampoline :>

15:31 slashus2: bounce bounce bounce

15:31 pjstadig: seriously. clabango.

15:32 rsynnott: what is clabango, anyway?

15:32 durka42: pjstadig: how's the terracotta going so we can use a huge server cluster to host the clabango sites that will take over the web?

15:32 pjstadig: hehe

15:33 Lau_of_DK: yea, thats the big question

15:33 * rsynnott lost track due to innate fascination and loathing associated with Ronald Raegan's face

15:33 te: let me tell you what clabango is:

15:33 awesome.

15:33 Lau_of_DK: When is TerraBango ready for primetime?

15:33 pjstadig: i'm smoothing out the interactions with multiple REPLs

15:33 danlarkin: Lau_of_DK: oh jeez, terrabango...

15:33 te: Mr. Clabango

15:33 pjstadig: i'm getting a weird NPE in BitmapIndexedNode when I def in a REPL that was reconnected to the cluster

15:34 * durka42 isn't sure where bitmaps come into this

15:34 pjstadig: the NPE goes away after doing a (ns-map 'user)

15:34 i think i'm not configuring TC correctly or something

15:34 durka42: so terracotta is like not loading everything right away?

15:35 pjstadig: what do you mean?

15:35 durka42: ns-map seems like it would be doing something akin to a dorun

15:35 pjstadig: right

15:35 hiredman: ,(doc ns-map)

15:35 clojurebot: "([ns]); Returns a map of all the mappings for the namespace."

15:35 pjstadig: yeah TC works like a virtual memory

15:36 if it's not in your VM and you try to get it, then it gets brought to your VM

15:36 durka42: but def is assuming it's there when it isn't yet

15:36 pjstadig: but according to the TC site you should only get an NPE for uninstrumented code

15:36 which shouldn't be the case

15:36 durka42: hrmm

15:37 pjstadig: i'm trying to learn TC and the internals of Clojure at the same time, so it's a challenge

15:37 interesting tho

15:39 CLABANGOCOTTA!

15:39 durka42: i think TerraBango's better

15:39 pjstadig: oh

15:40 i might have fixed the NPE

15:40 yeah

15:41 the problem appears to have been that BIN clones it's node array instead of creating a new one and doing an arraycopy

15:41 durka42: you say that now, until later... it comes back when you LEAST expect it... and then *vanishes* without a backtrace

15:42 pjstadig: i really want to move on to something more interesting like getting agents to work, but this stupid NPE his been blocking me for a few days now

15:42 man that sucked

15:43 Lau_of_DK: I know the feeling, you try to get some real work done, and suddenly, CLABANGO! you set back a week

15:44 hiredman: clojurebot: suddenly is <reply>CLABANGO!

15:44 clojurebot: 'Sea, mhuise.

15:45 durka42: clojurebot: i was walking in the park, when suddenly...

15:45 clojurebot: CLABANGO!

15:45 pjstadig: hehe

15:45 durka42: gotta love that fuzzy matching

15:45 te: clojurebot: I was just frolicking around in a field of black eyed susans, when out of nowhere, suddenly...

15:45 clojurebot: CLABANGO!

15:47 Lau_of_DK: haha

15:47 niceness

15:48 te: clojurebot: So I'm proposing to my wife and I get down on one knee and I flash the ring, and pop the question-- She looks into my eyes and screams out suddenly...

15:48 clojurebot: one is B

15:49 te: clojurebot: forget one

15:49 clojurebot: I forgot one

15:49 te: clojurebot: So I'm proposing to my wife and I get down on one knee and I flash the ring, and pop the question-- She looks into my eyes and screams out suddenly...

15:49 clojurebot: ring is http://github.com/mmcgrana/ring/tree/master

15:49 te: damnit

15:49 Chouser: hehe

15:50 hiredman: clojurebot: botsnack

15:50 clojurebot: thanks; that was delicious. (nom nom nom)

15:50 Raynes: ,(reduce + (for [x (range 1000) :when (or (zero? (rem x first-num)) (zero? (rem x second-num)))] x)))

15:50 clojurebot: java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: first-num in this context

15:51 Raynes: Oops :>

15:51 That's what you get for copypasting code straight from a function.

15:51 ,(reduce + (for [x (range 1000) :when (or (zero? (rem x 3)) (zero? (rem x 5)))] x)))

15:51 clojurebot: 233168

15:51 Raynes: Project euler problem one: Complete.

15:51 Lau_of_DK: lol

15:52 hiredman: it's too bad about that reduce on the outside

15:53 Lau_of_DK: ,(reduce + (distinct (concat (range 3 1000 3) (range 5 1000 5))))

15:53 clojurebot: java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: clojure/core$distinct__4588$step__4590

15:53 durka42: erp?

15:53 Lau_of_DK: Thats no good, its from the clojure-euler.wikispaces.com

15:53 Raynes: hiredman: I'm fixing that as we speak.

15:55 hiredman: clojurebot may be broken

15:55 Raynes: Works on my REPL

15:55 I like my implementation better :>

15:55 hiredman: yeah

15:56 Raynes: Considering I have only been using Clojure for about 3 weeks, and haven't even finished the functional programming chapter of stu's book, I think I did pretty good...

15:56 shoover: thanks for the enthralling hype around Clabango, folks. In a day of tough bug fixing, that's quality entertainment!

15:57 danlarkin: hahh

15:58 shoover: danlarkin: laughing is for closers. get back to work until the code is pushed

15:58 danlarkin: :( yessir

15:59 lisppaste8: slashus2 pasted "tail recursion?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76850

16:00 slashus2: I was working on this, and I am having a hard time seeing why the last function's recur isn't in the tail position (for the loop)

16:00 next to the last function

16:01 Raynes: slashus2: The last function is inside the loop after the recur.

16:01 slashus2: Raynes: hum?

16:01 Raynes: Add another parenthesis on the end of the recur line and remove one from the last line.

16:02 slashus2: I wanted the recur to be conditional so I can terminate.

16:02 durka42: because the function needs the result of the recur to feed into the if

16:02 te: I hear clabango implements hidden markovs to somehow guess at the code you're going to write

16:03 durka42: oh, wait, no

16:03 Raynes: There is another function call after the recur.

16:03 dnolen: slashu2: the result, real-prime-factors, is not in the if statement

16:03 danlarkin: te: correct

16:04 slashus2: yey

16:04 thank you

16:04 that was it!

16:05 pos-prime-fact needs to start at 1 to prevent division by zero.

16:06 Another question. On my prime-factors function. It isn't an infinite lazy sequence all of the time, so the stack is blown if you try to go past the last value.

16:06 This isn't good practice, I imagine.

16:09 hiredman: ~clojurbeot joined, and suddenly...

16:09 clojurebot: CLABANGO!

16:09 Lau_of_DK: Raynes: Yea I think you did good on Euler :)

16:09 Raynes: Thanks :D

16:10 hiredman: ,(reduce + (distinct (concat (range 3 1000 3) (range 5 1000 5))))

16:10 clojurebot: 233168

16:11 hiredman: I guess that is cute

16:12 Lau_of_DK: Sure is

16:17 hiredman: ,((comp (partial reduce +) distinct (partial apply concat)) [(range 3 1000 3) (range 5 1000 5)])

16:17 clojurebot: 233168

16:19 durka42: ok, now in the pl macro :)

16:20 hiredman: ,(reduce + (set (concat (range 3 1000 3) (range 5 1000 5))))

16:20 clojurebot: 233168

16:21 hiredman: I really don't likae the concat and the two ranges

16:21 Lau_of_DK: ,(+ 116584 116584)

16:21 clojurebot: 233168

16:21 Lau_of_DK: quite obviously the best solution

16:22 pjstadig: ~suddenly

16:22 clojurebot: CLABANGO!

16:26 Lau_of_DK: Hmm, Anyway we can rename Clojure to RichBango! ?

16:26 durka42: no

16:26 pjstadig: clabango.com is available

16:27 suprisingly

16:28 danlarkin: someone scoop it up quick before godaddy scrapes the logs and squats it

16:28 pjstadig: nooo!

16:29 wait now you're for clabango?

16:30 danlarkin: I'm of two minds about it

16:30 pjstadig: i'm now the proud owner of clabango.com

16:31 best $6.99 i ever spent

16:31 danlarkin: hahah

16:31 durka42: $6.99?

16:31 * durka42 wonders who pjstadig buys domain names from

16:31 Lau_of_DK: Congratz man

16:31 pjstadig: expensive?

16:31 durka42: no, cheap

16:31 pjstadig: 1and1

16:31 durka42: ah

16:33 cmvkk: that IS cheap.

16:34 rsynnott: yep, at that price, they'll be making their money entirely out of selling hosting and other services

16:35 pjstadig: or the parking pages on domains that people buy on a whim in an IRC session and never use

16:35 danlarkin: haha

16:39 hiredman: hmmmm

16:40 clojure.contrib.json.write prints lists and vectors the same way, that is less then ideal

16:40 danlarkin: prints them to json the same way?

16:40 cmvkk: is there...is there a difference in json?

16:41 danlarkin: json has one list datatype: the array

16:52 dnolen: is it possible to write to a string as if it was a stream?

16:54 Chouser: ,(with-out-str (prn :hi) (println "here we" [" " :go]))

16:54 clojurebot: ":hi\nhere we [ :go]\n"

16:55 dnolen: Chouser: but is it possible to get the stream object that represents the target string?

16:57 Chouser: ,(with-out-str (print "*out* is now: " *out*))

16:57 clojurebot: "*out* is now: #<StringWriter *out* is now: #<StringWriter >"

16:59 dnolen: Chouser: thanks!

17:00 Chouser: np

17:01 tashafa: #scala is funny

17:02 bitbckt: tashafa: elaborate

17:03 tashafa: maybe not the place but .. http://www.nabble.com/-scala--URGENT%3A-Please-read-if-you-have-any-information-about-Tony-Morris-to22462911.html

17:11 Lau_of_DK: tashafa: There's no wrong place for something like that

17:13 Raynes: #Scala is boring.

17:13 Never anyone there :|

17:13 And when they are they are even boringer than when they aren't there.

17:15 Ariens_Hyperion: is there a follow up?

17:16 Raynes: That message looks sincere

17:16 danlarkin: I believe he's complaining of a broken ankle

17:17 if it's a joke I don't find it very funny

17:17 Raynes: Nor do I.

17:18 Lau_of_DK: hmm, danlarkin good someones away, it does appear he's suffering from a broken angle...

17:19 s/away/awake

17:19 Raynes: Lau_of_DK: It's 4:18 PM here.

17:21 Ariens_Hyperion: so he suicides because of a broken ankle?

17:22 slashus2: ,(new java.util.Date)

17:22 clojurebot: #<Date Wed Mar 11 14:24:41 PDT 2009>

17:27 Raynes: They are talking about Tony Morris in #Haskell-blah

17:28 duncanm: is tehre no dedicated predicate for testing null?

17:28 empty? takes a Seq

17:28 Cark: ,(doc nil?)

17:28 clojurebot: "([x]); Returns true if x is nil, false otherwise."

17:48 sohail: that morris guy is athiest and has been miserable for the last little while b/c of his ankle. I've been reading his blog and apparently no one can figure it out

17:49 well if it's the same morris anyway

17:53 Lau_of_DK: sohail: So youre impression is, that he is actually considering suicide?

17:53 blbrown: wow, a little drama in scala land

17:53 WizardofWestmarc: blbrown: eh?

17:53 blbrown: http://www.nabble.com/-scala--URGENT%3A-Please-read-if-you-have-any-information-about-Tony-Morris-to22462911.html

17:53 WizardofWestmarc, he is a regular on #scala

17:54 WizardofWestmarc: oh my

17:54 sohail: Lau_of_DK, not like I know him or anything so I can't say.. Just what I've said above

17:55 Lau_of_DK: k

17:56 Ariens_Hyperion: I can't open his page, but I fint it a little strange that someone would quit because of an ankle.

17:57 sohail: Yeah, I'm sure the ankle has nothing to do with it

17:58 WizardofWestmarc: IIRC most suicidal people live close to the edge and then some thing just pushes them over

18:00 erohtar: could someone tell me how many agents I can start within a clojure process?

18:01 Chouser: erohtar: an agent is not a thread -- you can have as many as will fit in memory.

18:02 rsynnott: sohail: how is it relevant that he's an atheist?

18:02 (aren't most educated people at least agnostic these days?)

18:02 Ariens_Hyperion: no

18:02 bitbckt: rsynnott: I was wondering the same thing.

18:02 Chouser: rsynnott: really not.

18:03 erohtar: chouser: so how does threading play into this?

18:05 Chouser: erohtar: when you use 'send' or 'send-off', and agent will be assigned to a thread. There are different limits on the number of threads going at once.

18:05 sohail: rsynnott, rabid athiests I know are usually not very happy people

18:06 Chouser: ...depending on whether you're using 'send' or 'send-off'

18:06 erohtar: chouser: say im using send

18:06 chouser: what will happen if I send something to 300 agents?

18:07 Chouser: erohtar: when you 'send' to an agent, the agent queues up waiting for a thread from a pool that's fixed based on the number of CPUs you have.

18:07 erohtar: chouser: and when the action completes successfully, does that associated thread get harvested?

18:08 Chouser: so in your example on a 2-core box, 4 agents would start running more or less immediately, and the other 296 will wait for one of the 4 to be done.

18:08 rsynnott: sohail: hasn't been my experience. It's a very popular idea (atheists being depressed/suicidal), but does not seem to be supported by actual studies or evidence

18:08 Chouser: erohtar: yes, the thread gets assigned to the next queued agent, or goes idle.

18:08 erohtar: chouser: and how would this differ if i use send-off?

18:09 bitbckt: sohail: rabies does tend to make people unhappy

18:09 Chouser: the pool used by 'send-off' grows as needed, to allow agents to block on IO.

18:09 rsynnott: anyway, rabies is treatable these days :)

18:09 brianh: sohail: i'd say rabid {atheist religious conservative liberal nra naacp ....} are usually not very happy people

18:09 Chouser: erohtar: so if you send-off to 300 agents (and they each run long enough) it will try to create 300 threads.

18:10 erohtar: how well that ends up actually working on your system depends on lots of factors, as I'm sure you can imagine.

18:11 rsynnott: doesn't Java have comparatively efficient cooperative threads, these days, in addition to standard OS threads?

18:11 erohtar: chouser: got it

18:11 sohail: rsynnott, I did not say I had scientific evidence and I would agree with brianh

18:11 durka42: does java have fake threads? i thought it just had OS threads

18:11 erohtar: chouser: and is there a way to increase the send ppol?

18:11 Mec: is there a function to merge 2 lists: (f '(1 2) '(3 4)) -> (1 2 3 4) there must be but i can't find it

18:12 durka42: concat

18:12 Chouser: erohtar: I don't think so.

18:12 Mec: ah hah

18:12 thanks

18:12 sohail: brianh, my experience may be skewed as I have had more exposure to rabid athiests than rabid anything else

18:12 rsynnott: ah, apparently java has abandoned 'green threads'

18:12 AWizzArd: erohtar: but that does not limit you in any way. It is just a default value that makes sense.

18:13 rsynnott: I had a vague idea that it still used an erlang-like hybrid approach

18:13 AWizzArd: rsynnott: what for would you like to have green threads?

18:13 durka42: ,(let [f concat] (f '(1 2) '(3 4)))

18:13 clojurebot: (1 2 3 4)

18:13 erohtar: chouser: ok - so if I were to use send-off - and as the 300 agents finish... would the threads reduce?

18:13 rsynnott: AWizzArd: cooperative threads or processes, if done correctly, are potentially very efficient

18:14 AWizzArd: rsynnott: but they would introduce at least a minimal overhead compared to have the functions running in serial in one thread.

18:14 * rsynnott wonders what, precisely, is a 'rabid atheist', as opposed to a standard one

18:14 rsynnott: AWizzArd: yep, they would

18:16 Chouser: erohtar: the 'send-off' pool is created via java.util.concucurrent.Executors/newCachedThreadPool

18:16 erohtar: the javadoc says nothing about releasing idle threads, afaict.

18:16 oh!

18:17 "Threads that have not been used for sixty seconds are terminated and removed from the cache. Thus, a pool that remains idle for long enough will not consume any resources."

18:17 so, "yes" :-)

18:17 AWizzArd: rsynnott: so their main use would be for human interaction with programs? Many people can interact at the same time, instead of just one?

18:17 erohtar: chouser: ok ... so that means using send-off for lots of agents that do complex computation is fine?

18:18 Chouser: I suppose, but if the work is CPU-bound, why would you want more than approx one thread per CPU?

18:18 erohtar: chouser: cause i want to be able to scale the processing service im using by increasing the number of threads

18:19 Chouser: 'send' currently uses a pool of n+2 where n is the number of CPUs

18:19 erohtar: chouser: im thinking of using something like terracotta to increase the numbero of available CPUs

18:19 rsynnott: AWizzArd: potentially, for a useful abstraction over non-threaded asynchronous IO, for example

18:19 (this is SORT OF what erlang does)

18:19 though those are green processes rather than threads

18:19 Chouser: erohtar: ah, well, I don't know anything about how that would end up working. Let us know what you discover. :-)

18:19 Mec: anyone familiar with clojurebox or just emacs with clojure?

18:19 AWizzArd: yes, smaller footprint

18:20 erohtar: chouser: ok, will do! thanks!

18:20 rsynnott: Mec: I use emacs and slime with clojure

18:22 Mec: rsynnott: I'm trying to figure out how to get the scratch buffer, or any buffer, to use the *slime-repl clojure* but M-x clojure-mode doesn't seem to do it

18:22 WizardofWestmarc: I think it's m-x slime

18:22 rsynnott: you mean you want to switch to the slime-repl buffer?

18:22 WizardofWestmarc: though it SHOULD be auto loading if you're using clojure box

18:23 * WizardofWestmarc is running a modified version of clojurebox with newer jar files.

18:23 rsynnott: M-x slime (or possibly slime-connect if you're using a free-standing swank server) should do it

18:24 Mec: well it looks like there are 2 repls *slime-repl clojure* and *inferior-lisp* and running the clojure menu commands runs in the inferior-lisp which doesnt know any clojure functions

18:55 Raynes: Does Rich have a beard?

18:55 jhawk28: no

18:55 Raynes: Were doomed.

18:55 jhawk28: at least not in the screencasts

18:56 Raynes: We just had a discussion in #Haskell-Blah and came to the conclusion that languages do not become popular unless their creator has a beard.

18:56 cmvkk: larry wall never had a beard

18:56 jhawk28: there is always hope, Python and Ruby founders grew them

18:57 Raynes: Who's Larry Wall?

18:57 cmvkk: perl creator.

18:57 Raynes: 'Nuff said.

18:57 bitbckt: the Matz-beard is... lacking cred, imho

18:57 cmvkk: hey, it was popular at least

18:59 Ariens_Hyperion: the beard is just a statistical side effect .

18:59 Chousuke: perhaps it is that a popular language causes beards to grow.

18:59 bitbckt: Correlation != Causation

18:59 cmvkk: yes. let's not put the cart before the horse here.

18:59 Chousuke: some people just fight this by shaving.

18:59 jhawk28: http://www.xkcd.com/552/

19:00 * bitbckt waggles suggestive brow

19:00 jhawk28: today was a good day - Hacker News

19:01 cmvkk: i, uh....wait, what?

19:04 Ariens_Hyperion: today was the erlang day

19:04 Mec: ack how do you break a running emacs repl command

19:09 nhvm

19:10 jhawk28: I laughed about 15min about Hacker News

19:11 I have some implementation questions about adding a *read-eval* flag to the clojure

19:12 I was able to add the flag, but it does not have visibility of the flag at the reader level

19:13 so, I was thinking that I would need to set it as the reader parses, does this make sense or should I look for a different approach

19:13 *read-eval* effectivly disables a LispReader

19:16 or would the clojure group be a better place to post?

19:20 Chousuke: perhaps.

19:26 jhawk28: misstype, it should disable an EvalReader

19:31 hiredman: jhawk28: I think you would set the flag before you call the reader

19:31 jhawk28: the issue is of scope

19:31 for exampler:

19:31 hiredman: (binding [*read-eval* false] (read untrusted-data))

19:32 jhawk28: (binding [*read-eval* false] #=(def x 3))

19:33 the when the #= is read, it does not have visibility of the false value of *read-eval*

19:34 pardon my grammar :)

19:37 here is an actual functional example: (binding [*read-eval* false] ) #=(eval (def x 3))

19:39 Mec: if you're expecting a list you can destruct it like (first & rest) right?

19:40 ayrnieu: jhawk, the way to do this is to A) set *read-eval* is a prior form, or modify the reader in a prior form, B) implement the reader syntax as macros that you can disable, C) use your own reader, perhaps after factoring clojure's reader for reuse

19:41 jhawk - you can add read syntax specifically to control the reader, and this can work within a form, but when would you ever want to do this? Your own idea is pure madness.

19:42 jhawk28: agreed, it is madness :)

19:42 ayrnieu: ,((fn [(a & b)] a) [1 2 3])

19:42 clojurebot: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.Exception: Unsupported binding form: (a & b)

19:43 ayrnieu: ,((fn [[a & b]] a) '(1 2 3))

19:43 clojurebot: 1

19:43 Mec: ,((fn [[a & b]] b) '(1 2 3))

19:43 clojurebot: (2 3)

19:44 Mec: ah excellent

19:58 jhawk28: :ayrnieu looking into it

20:06 cooldude127: why didn't anyone tell me about eclim? eclipse + vim = java love

20:17 Drakeson: (require 'java.net.URLConnection

20:17 oops!

20:19 how can I access URLConnection? (require 'java.net.URLConnection) is apparently not the right way.

20:19 durka42: (import '[java.net URLConnection])

20:20 Drakeson: what is the first part (java.net) called in java terminology? the the whole thing (java.net.URLConnection) is a "java class".

20:21 durka42: not entirely sure

20:21 i would call java.net.URLConnection a "fully qualified class name"

20:27 Drakeson: well, even (import '[java.net URLConnection]) is not working :(

20:28 I have sun-java6-jdk, sun-java6-jre, sun-java6-bin

20:28 can you confirm whether it is working for you?

20:29 oops, nevermind

20:29 thanks a lot

20:29 it was all a very stupid mistake.

21:03 durka42: i can't find where vimclojure does C-w = but it's really annoying

21:03 cooldude127: durka42: i agree. i like my repl smaller

21:10 is it just the vimclojure prompt that doesn't show the current namespace? or is that just what the vanilla clojure repl does?

21:10 * cooldude127 has been in slime world for a while

21:12 durka42: cooldude127: :set noequalalways

21:12 stops the flickering too

21:12 cooldude127: durka42: that's for the repl problem?

21:12 cool

21:12 durka42: yeah

21:13 yeah, it doesn't show the namespace

21:13 gorilla makes its own prompt

21:13 cooldude127: that's lame, i like seeing the namespace

21:13 durka42: i bet it wouldn't be too hard to hack in

21:14 cooldude127: it would for me. i'm just starting with vim

21:14 durka42: well, me too

21:14 i meant for someone who knew vimscript :)

21:14 cooldude127: lol

21:14 durka42: vimclojure does keep track of the current namespace, though

21:15 cooldude127: like in the file?

21:15 durka42: wait, that might be different

21:15 cooldude127: idk, what are you talking about?

21:15 durka42: there's b:vimclojure_namespace which i thought was about the REPL, but it looks like that's used for eval-file, so it might be the file instead

21:16 cooldude127: well that's kinda important for the eval commands, so they end up in the right ns

21:25 durka42: :set noequalalways didn't totally fix it. it still readjusted, it's just not equal

21:25 i think it had something to do with the preview window opening

21:28 durka42: hmm, fixed it for me. the preview window opens and closes on \p but the repl stays

21:28 maybe it has something to do with the settings i was fiddling with before

21:28 cooldude127: could be

21:31 Drakeson: how do you inspect the constructor of a class in slime?

21:31 C-c I does not show me anything about the ctor

21:32 (I have the most recent slime)

21:33 also, are there examples showing how to port some java code to clojure?

21:34 duncanm: Drakeson: is there a set way to do it?

21:34 Drakeson: my understanding is that one doesn't write OO-style code in Clojure much

21:35 cooldude127: yeah you don't usually

21:35 functional code is what clojure's about

21:35 duncanm: i've been writing clojure for two weeks now, and only last night did i learn about gen-class

21:36 Chouser: duncanm: and now you're trying to un-learn it, aren't you.

21:36 duncanm: heh

21:36 proxy is okay

21:36 cooldude127: genclass it usually unnecessary

21:36 Chouser: yes, proxy is much better, except when it's insufficient.

21:39 cooldude127: durka42: do you have anything like paredit for emacs in vim?

21:39 durka42: there is surround.vim

21:39 things like (cursor on open paren) ys%) to surround the form with parens

21:40 autoclose.vim does what it says but gets annoying sometimes

21:41 cooldude127: :( i love paredit

21:43 Raynes: cooldude127: Use emacs.

21:44 cooldude127: i'm using vim to see what i'm missing

21:44 Chouser: cooldude127: wow

21:44 dnolen: cooldude127: that's a new one ;) emacs missing something? no...

21:45 cooldude127: not necessarily in features

21:45 but in the way it works

21:45 Chouser: I mean, I'm a habitual vim user, but I certainly have a bit of an inferiority complex.

21:45 duncanm: cooldude127: you like having modes?

21:45 Chouser: emacs has modes

21:45 cooldude127: not the same kind of modes

21:45 Raynes: cooldude127: You're missing nothing.

21:46 cooldude127: duncanm: i'm not minding it so far

21:46 Chouser: sure, it has the mode you're in immediately after pressing Meta-Something

21:46 but before you press something else

21:46 cooldude127: oh well i guess so

21:46 duncanm: cooldude127: other than that, i don't really see how it works differently

21:46 huh?

21:46 powr-toc: Emacs also has viper-mode for vi-like modes

21:46 duncanm: in emacs, there are commands and buffers, that's it

21:47 M-x just opens a new buffer and put the point there

21:48 Chouser: ctrl-w n does the same in vim

21:48 duncanm: Chouser: not when you're in insert mode

21:49 Raynes: "Insert mode" is one of the things I dislike about Vim.

21:49 cooldude127: so far i'm liking vim, i'm just trying to get used to it

21:49 duncanm: Raynes: if you remove that, vim wouldn't be vim

21:49 Chouser: it's what I like most about vim, and would seek to emulate in emacs if/when I switch.

21:49 Raynes: One more for commands and another for inserting is annowing.

21:50 annoying*

21:50 cooldude127: i love the eclim (eclipse + vim) plugin so much

21:50 dnolen: personally I think the main reason to use emacs is SLIME, if it wasn't for that it really wouldn't matter, personally I can't wait till clojure-mode and swank-clojure get to the point that SLIME is at for Common Lisp, which is out of control.

21:50 durka42: cooldude127: are you using vimclojure along with eclim?

21:51 Raynes: I only use Emacs for Haskell.

21:51 Chouser: cooldude127: I may have to try that. I've previously tried jvi + enclojure + netbeans.

21:51 durka42: cooldude127: and what parts of eclim are awesome?

21:52 cooldude127: durka42: it uses eclipse project management, and gives you java formatting, validation, and refactoring

21:52 takes care of ant support too

21:52 so it runs ant from the right directory

21:52 durka42: that helps

21:52 cooldude127: it takes all the good stuff from eclipse, and leaves out the suck, replacing it with vim

21:54 i can't stand editing java in eclipse, it's just unbearable.

21:55 navigation is such a pain

21:55 </rant>

21:57 jhawk28: just have to figure out the shortcuts

21:58 the problem with eclipse shortcuts is they can sometimes be very long

22:00 cooldude127: not fun. not fun at all

22:00 i used to be able to do it until i got used to emacs, and stopped using arrow keys

22:01 jhawk28: I want to get used to Emacs, but I can't remember the shortcuts

22:01 * cooldude127 is having a similar problem with vim

22:02 dnolen: jhawk28: http://users.ece.utexas.edu/~adnan/emacs-refcard.pdf

22:04 jhawk28: dnolen: thanks

22:04 dnolen: np

22:05 cooldude127: durka42: you use the shortcuts in the repl to go through the history?

22:06 durka42: yes, C-up and C-down

22:06 i remapped them to M-up and M-down because i have spaces on the control key

22:06 cooldude127: durka42: me too!

22:06 what were the commands you did?

22:07 durka42: in your vimrc

22:07 autocmd FileType * if &ft == "clojure" | imap <M-up> <Plug>ClojureReplUpHistory| endif

22:07 and the same for M-down and ClojureReplDownHistory

22:08 the above is magic -- kotarak arrived at it after much experimentation and i am not sure how it works

22:10 Mec: can you put a recur and the end of an and?

22:11 Chouser: Mec: I would thinks so.

22:11 cmvkk: and is just a macro on top of if probably

22:12 Chouser: ,(loop [i 5] (and (pos? i) (recur (dec i))))

22:12 clojurebot: false

22:12 Mec: excellent, shouldn't matter if it's a loop or function right?

22:13 cooldude127: durka42: thanks

22:14 cmvkk: shouldn't matter.

22:15 hmm...using 'or' that way might be a concise way to return a value at the end of a loop

22:16 Chouser: Mec: right.

22:16 Mec: you'd need a pred that returns false or the value tho if i understand what your thinking

22:17 cmvkk: yeah, the value or nil more likely.

22:17 i can't even think of a useful example off the top of my head though

22:17 Mec: ya its basically just a while nil do sort of thing

22:19 cmvkk: ,(loop [a '(nil nil 1 2 3)] (or (first a) (recur (next a))))

22:19 clojurebot: 1

22:19 cmvkk: gets the first non-nil value.

22:19 that's the best i can do.

22:19 Mec: yup thats what came to my mind, doesnt seem too useful

22:29 jhawk28_: what is the command to exit out of the repl?

22:29 durka42: emacs or vim?

22:29 catch23: does the Repl support a command-line option to pass in code directly as a string?

22:29 duncanm: control-d?

22:30 oh

22:30 jhawk28_: there is no function or macro like exit or quit?

22:30 catch23: jhawk28_: can always do the java exit :)

22:31 duncanm: Runtime/exit

22:31 cooldude127: System/exit

22:31 durka42: ,close

22:31 clojurebot: java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: close in this context

22:32 duncanm: user=> (.exit (Runtime/getRuntime) 0)

22:34 jhawk28_: I thought I was missing something

22:43 Mec: is there a way to get all the repl inputs and save them to a file?

22:45 cooldude127: Mec: use a good text editor

22:45 Mec: in emacs?

22:45 cooldude127: Mec: you could save the slime repl buffer to a file and then do some postprocessing to filter the lines

22:46 Mec: ah ok

22:46 durka42: grep "^Clojure=>"

22:47 well unless it shows namespaces

22:47 cooldude127: durka42: slime buffer does

22:50 duncanm: slime doesn't support clojure debugging the same it does for CL, is that right?

22:59 Mec: is there a function: (f * 5 (range 1 10)) -> (5 10 15 20 25 ...)

22:59 hiredman: reductions, I think it is somewhere in contrib

22:59 durka42: ,(map (* 5 %) (range 1 10))

22:59 Mec: i suppose i could (repeat 5)

22:59 clojurebot: arg literal not in #()

22:59 durka42: ,(map #(* 5 %) (range 1 10))

22:59 clojurebot: (5 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 45)

23:00 durka42: heh, i'm writing python and i just thought "this needs to be in a transaction"

23:00 Chouser: nice

23:01 hiredman: I have been writing php all this afternoon

23:01 durka42: yuck

23:02 hiredman: I have been writing a parser for a lisp with similar syntax to clojure

23:02 cp2: ...in php?

23:02 gnuvince_: What does it mean "to chug"?

23:02 Chouser: gnuvince_: depends on context

23:03 durka42: ...as in a beverage?

23:03 hiredman: cp2: the idea being I can use this lisp in place of php

23:03 cp2: oh

23:03 then by all means

23:03 :)

23:03 gnuvince_: Can it mean "to move/displace/transport" something?

23:04 Or am I confusing with another verb?

23:04 Mec: there has to be a better way, this is kind of uggly:

23:04 ,(mapcat (fn [n] (map #(* % n) (range 1 5))) (range 1 5))

23:04 clojurebot: (1 2 3 4 2 4 6 8 3 6 9 12 4 8 12 16)

23:04 gnuvince_: Mec: for?

23:04 ,(for [x (range 1 5) y (range 1 5)] (* x y))

23:04 clojurebot: (1 2 3 4 2 4 6 8 3 6 9 12 4 8 12 16)

23:05 Mec: hey now, thats perfect

23:05 gnuvince_: :)

23:05 Chouser: gnuvince_: a train might "chug", but that's the closest to transport I can think of.

23:05 hiredman: ,(user 'clojure.contrib.seq_utils.clj)

23:05 clojurebot: java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: user in this context

23:05 hiredman: ,(use 'clojure.contrib.seq_utils.clj)

23:05 clojurebot: java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clojure/contrib/seq_utils/clj__init.class or clojure/contrib/seq_utils/clj.clj on classpath:

23:05 hiredman: hmmm

23:05 gnuvince_: Okay, then it's not the word I'm looking for

23:05 cp2: i guess if something chugs along it could be with...great momentum ?

23:05 cmvkk: you can use it metaphorically...to chug along

23:05 durka42: ,(use 'clojure.contrib.seq-utils)

23:05 clojurebot: java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clojure/contrib/seq_utils__init.class or clojure/contrib/seq_utils.clj on classpath:

23:06 gnuvince_: I'm talking about the C programming language and I want to call it a "memory mover/transporter/displacer/shuffler". Any suggestion?

23:06 ~seen rhickey

23:06 clojurebot: no, I have not seen rhickey

23:06 cp2: gnuvince_: then i guess "memory chugger

23:06 "

23:06 hiredman: java.lang.Exception: namespace 'clojure.contrib.seq_utils' not found after loading '/clojure/contrib/seq_utils'

23:06 cp2: isnt too fitting :)

23:07 hiredman: oh

23:07 dun

23:07 -

23:07 durka42: hiredman: - _

23:07 hiredman: ,(doc reductions)

23:07 clojurebot: "([f coll] [f init coll]); Returns a lazy seq of the intermediate values of the reduction (as per reduce) of coll by f, starting with init."

23:07 gnuvince_: cp2: do you have a suggestion?

23:07 ,`reductions

23:07 clojurebot: clojure.contrib.seq-utils/reductions

23:07 hiredman: ,(reductions * 5 (range 1 10))

23:07 clojurebot: (5 5 10 30 120 600 3600 25200 201600 1814400)

23:08 cp2: uhm..other than "memory manager" "memory utility", even though those are kind of lame, not really

23:08 gnuvince_: cp2: I'd like a term that conveys a grunt task

23:08 hiredman: nope

23:08 gnuvince_: memory humper

23:08 cp2: lol

23:08 durka42: clojurebot: do you suddenly have any ideas for us?

23:08 clojurebot: CLABANGO!

23:08 hiredman: humping gear is what grunts do

23:09 I have, a simple but more or less working reader

23:10 "(defn f [x] x)" -> a linked list and [x] and array containing the symbol x

23:10 an

23:13 Mec: ,(max '(1 2 3))

23:13 clojurebot: (1 2 3)

23:13 Mec: why?

23:13 hiredman: ,(doc max)

23:13 clojurebot: "([x] [x y] [x y & more]); Returns the greatest of the nums."

23:13 hiredman: ,(max 1 2 3)

23:13 clojurebot: 3

23:14 durka42: ,(apply max '(1 2 3))

23:14 clojurebot: 3

23:14 cmvkk: the greatest of alllll the nums

23:14 hiredman: ,(apply max '(1 2 3))

23:14 clojurebot: 3

23:14 Mec: right, i had to use apply, just wondering why it returned the list

23:14 hiredman: ~def max

23:14 Mec: wow thats a neat feature

23:15 ah ([x] x) that'll do it

23:16 hiredman: I need to find some way to do it for clojure's java side

23:19 ~seen cooldude227

23:19 clojurebot: cooldude227 was last seen joining #clojure, 0 minutes ago

23:19 cooldude127: hi

23:20 * cooldude127 wonders why iterm is not being nice to his option key

23:20 cooldude127: oh well, i suppose i can just ignore it

23:25 this channel lacks excitement

23:26 durka42: ~suddenly everything changes

23:26 clojurebot: CLABANGO!

23:26 cooldude127: wtf just happened

23:26 durka42: uh oh

23:26 cooldude127 might need to read some logs

23:27 cooldude127: durka42 might need to explain to cooldude127 what he's missing

23:27 :-p

23:28 cmvkk: for all you guys have been throwing that word around, i haven't seen any actual software...

23:28 durka42: well there was another one of those exchanges in which Lau exhorts danlarkin to push his web framework to github and danlarkin pleads lack of name / lack of functionality

23:28 which turned into a debate over the name

23:28 cooldude127: hmmm...and the name is clabanga?

23:28 *clabango

23:28 durka42: and then we trained clojurebot to complete our jokes for us

23:28 cooldude127: lol

23:29 durka42: well, danlarkin is in favor of "madison"

23:29 Chouser: ~It wasn't making any sense, and then suddenly...

23:29 clojurebot: CLABANGO!

23:29 cooldude127: haha

23:31 cmvkk: so there isn't actually going to be a famous piece of software called "Madison Square Clabango" in full? I find that vaguely disappointing...

23:31 cooldude127: oh that would be hilarious

23:31 cmvkk: and it's such a catchy and unforgettable name.

23:31 cooldude127: mhm

23:32 random question: anyone in here using irssi?

23:32 * Chouser raises his hand

23:32 cmvkk: I am...but i don't really know anything about it

23:32 replaca: cooldude127: me too

23:32 cooldude127: me neither, i just installed it tonight

23:32 i rather like it actually, tho i believe it has much more power than i'm aware of

23:33 hiredman: I am as well

23:33 replaca: cooldude127: Here is my link page, with just a few things: http://delicious.com/tomfaulhaber/irssi

23:34 I learned a bunch, but instantly forgot it

23:34 cooldude127: cool stuff

23:36 jhawk28_: I used to use irssi until I got Linkinus

23:36 cooldude127: replaca: actually that top link helped fix a problem i was having with iterm

23:40 hiredman: ugh

23:40 php's object system is so horrible

23:40 Raynes: Abusing trampoline is fun.

23:42 Mec: any thoughts on simplifying: (apply and (for [x (range 1 21)] (divisible 200 x)))

23:42 cooldude127: Mec: the fact that it won't work

23:42 and is a macro, which you can't apply

23:43 Mec: well then

23:43 any way to do that then ;p

23:43 replaca: cooldude127: great, glad to help

23:43 gnuvince_: ,(all #(zero (rem 200 %)) (range 1 21))

23:43 clojurebot: java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: all in this context

23:43 gnuvince_: ,(all? #(zero (rem 200 %)) (range 1 21))

23:43 clojurebot: java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: all? in this context

23:43 gnuvince_: ,(every? #(zero (rem 200 %)) (range 1 21))

23:43 clojurebot: java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: zero in this context

23:43 gnuvince_: ,(every? #(zero? (rem 200 %)) (range 1 21))

23:43 clojurebot: false

23:43 cooldude127: ,every

23:43 clojurebot: java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: every in this context

23:43 cooldude127: oh

23:43 gnuvince_: can you believe I sometimes use this language? ;)

23:43 cooldude127: lol

23:44 gnuvince_: Mec: that looks like a Euler problem, isn't it?

23:44 Mec: indeed

23:44 gnuvince_: finding the first integer that's evenly divisible by 1 to 20?

23:44 Mec: im working thru the problem set as a way to learn clojure

23:44 cooldude127: nobody does code like that for real stuff

23:44 gnuvince_: Mec: look into clojure.contrib.math/lcm instead

23:45 You'll get an answer much more quickly

23:45 Mec: sure but that's cheating ;p

23:45 hiredman: oh man

23:45 cooldude127: Mec: nothing's cheating

23:45 just get an answer :)

23:45 hiredman: this is too perfect, if only I can figure out how to use it

23:45 Mec: calling least common multiple is too easy

23:45 cooldude127: hiredman: share :)

23:45 Mec: well, yes this is true

23:45 gnuvince_: Mec: that's the "correct" answer

23:46 ,(reduce clojure.contrib.math/lcm (range 1 21))

23:46 clojurebot: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.contrib.math

23:46 hiredman: cooldude127: php objects have a magic __invoke method that gets called if you try to use them as a function

23:46 cooldude127: clojurebot doesn't have contrib

23:46 hiredman: they do!?

23:46 gnuvince_: ah

23:46 cooldude127: hiredman: i don't remember that. i remember some of the other magic methods but not that one

23:46 Mec: i dont have contrib either, so that solves that problem ;p

23:47 hiredman: so when I figure out how I am going to store functions I can just use that

23:47 durka42: that sounds rather useful actually

23:47 cooldude127: Mec: you should probably get contrib

23:47 life's easier that way

23:47 less wheel reinventing

23:47 hiredman: IFns have about 20 invoke methods

23:48 cooldude127: wow

23:48 trying to prolong a varargs one?

23:49 hiredman: ,(count (filter #(= % "invoke") (map #(.getName %) (.getMethods clojure.lang.IFn))))

23:49 clojurebot: 22

23:49 hiredman: Yeah

23:50 durka42: the JVM crashed on me >:o

23:50 hiredman: it happens

23:51 durka42: i called source after rebuilding clojure

23:52 so i assume it cached a file descriptor or something

23:52 that no longer existed

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