#clojure log - Feb 01 2009

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0:00 durka42: :)

0:01 gnuvince_: However, now that the seq is evaluated, the time for seq vs vector is nearly the same (still 6 seconds faster for seq)

0:02 durka42: apparently computation takes time :)

0:02 weird that you needed a doall if the lazy algorithm worked before

0:02 * durka42 is actually leaving

0:02 gnuvince_: See ya

0:27 lisppaste8: url?

0:27 lisppaste8: To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.

0:27 gnuvince pasted "Does this look clean?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74667

0:31 dreish: Not without a docstring.

0:35 ayrnieu: ,(into [] (range 100))

0:35 clojurebot: [0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99]

0:35 ayrnieu: ,(vec (range 100))

0:35 clojurebot: [0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99]

0:41 lisppaste8: ayrnieu annotated #74667 with "hash-map/repeatedly" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74667#1

0:50 gnuvince_: ayrnieu: I had tried with memfns, but they were too slow. In the end, I went with a small macro to call the appropriate method.

1:21 blbrown: ayrnieu, what is the difference between the into and vec calls

1:25 hmm, #clojure is way more active than #jruby. hmmm, that is saying something

1:27 Wizardofwestmarc: really? I'm surprised, since I thought jruby was a fairly popular ruby implementation

1:48 durka42: so i can do (reduce max [1 2 3 6 4]) to get 6, but is there an easy way to get the index back too?

1:51 Wizardofwestmarc: only thing I can think of is building a set of pairs, so like [1 0] [2 1] etc then making a lambda that max's against the first value

1:54 durka42: yeah

1:54 i'm working on that

1:54 java is very touchy about what i do with this array...

1:54 Wizardofwestmarc: oh fun

1:54 durka42: if i try and count it the jvm crashes

1:55 Wizardofwestmarc: I'd try writing it up but this machine's copy of slime-mode for clojure is broken

1:55 since I do most of my clojure coding on the laptop haven't bothered to correct it.

1:56 durka42: (reduce #(if (> (second %1) (second %2)) %1 %2) (indexed pixel-data-array))

1:56 that should do it, no?

1:56 indexed from contrib.seq-utils

1:56 Wizardofwestmarc: if indexed returns what I think it does I would expect that to work

1:57 what error are you getting?

1:57 durka42: the JVM segfaults :)

1:57 Wizardofwestmarc: ...really?

1:57 wow

1:57 durka42: yeah

1:57 i thought it wasn't supposed to do that

1:57 Wizardofwestmarc: gimme a sec to get on the laptop, I want to try this

1:58 durka42: Invalid memory access of location 00000000 eip=09433ff5

1:58 it might be QTJava that's unstable

1:59 ,(reduce #(if (> (second %1) (second %2)) %1 %2) (indexed (into-array Integer/TYPE [5 4 3 2 1])))

1:59 clojurebot: java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: indexed in this context

1:59 durka42: ,(use 'clojure.contrib.seq-utils)

1:59 clojurebot: nil

1:59 durka42: ,(reduce #(if (> (second %1) (second %2)) %1 %2) (indexed (into-array Integer/TYPE [5 4 3 2 1])))

1:59 clojurebot: [0 5]

1:59 durka42: works fine with normal arrays

2:00 Wizardofwestmarc: so indexed uses java arrays and not vectors?

2:00 * Wizardofwestmarc hasn't looked at it much

2:01 durka42: java arrays seem to magically convert to seqs

2:01 Wizardofwestmarc: hm

2:03 durka42: it's so weird

2:03 i can (reduce max pixel-data-array)

2:03 and (indexed pixel-data-array) is fine

2:04 but trying to reduce with the indexed array, or trying to (count pixel-data-array) is a crash

2:07 Wizardofwestmarc: so you're using Jambi?

2:07 durka42: no, QTJava for grabbing images from an iSight

2:08 Wizardofwestmarc: hm

2:08 durka42: it is, unfortunately, a 32-bit only API that is headed for obsolescence

2:09 but there is no java wrapper for its replacement yet

2:09 Wizardofwestmarc: eck

2:09 and I hate when I get screwed up by a typo

2:09 was trying to use seq-utils, kept getting errors, thought it was a classpath issue

2:09 ...turns out I was typing clojure.contrib.seq-util

2:10 *headdesk*

2:14 blbrown: Wizardofwestmarc I have been on there for years and rarely see a lot of discussion (#jruby). but then again, there is a #ruby-lang and jruby is really just the java implementation. Maybe there is no need.

2:15 Discussion of the book I want to write. http://berlinbrowndev.blogspot.com/2009/01/outline-for-enterprise-development-with.html

2:16 Wizardofwestmarc: hm, certainly a useful book idea. And with the love all the JVM languages are getting these days could be popular.

2:17 * Wizardofwestmarc imagines people showing their bosses "SEE! This is how we can use language X in our existing environment!"

2:17 Wizardofwestmarc: now if only my work codebase was on the JVM so I could convert them to clojure >_>.

2:18 blbrown: Wizardofwestmarc, exactly. There are books for each language (most of them anyway) but I feel there is a place for using a combination in an enterprise shop. You might use jruby for jdbc based scripting. scala for engineering a server app. Clojure for web apps, GUI apps

2:18 Wizardofwestmarc, but you can't call the existing code from clojure

2:19 Wizardofwestmarc: blbrown: oh yeah. Using multiple languages to take advantage of their strengths, assuming you have a good enough dev team to handle it, will only increase productivity

2:21 blbrown: Wizardofwestmarc take (clojure.xml/parse filename) ... that is one line of code to load a serialize a xml file. How many lines of java setup code is normally required to do that? 30-40?

2:21 Wizardofwestmarc: at least

2:22 and the idea of tying into, say, django with clojure is pretty appealing since I come from a python background on personal programming

2:23 giving you the power of a proven framework but the other capabilities of clojure on top of it.

2:23 blbrown: you mean mixing django jython and clojure?

2:23 Wizardofwestmarc: right

2:24 blbrown: woaaa, heavy

2:24 I am going to add that to my book

2:24 Wizardofwestmarc: should be doable

2:24 rails works with jruby as well doesn't it?

2:24 blbrown: jruby/rails was too slow. Like 2 seconds a request too slow I don't know about django/jython.

2:24 Wizardofwestmarc: ...

2:24 wow that bad?

2:25 and the django guys took the time to help get it working on jython

2:25 I doubt they'd have been satisifed with slow and crappy

2:25 blbrown: Wizardofwestmarc, I bench marked it too. http://berlinbrowndev.blogspot.com/2008/08/application-server-benchmarks-including.html But I think I ran with the wrong rails settings

2:25 I like django over rails anyway

2:25 Wizardofwestmarc: nod

2:25 I'm just not big on ruby, I looked at it at one point

2:26 I already knew python and ruby didn't feel different enough to warrant the time to learn.

2:26 seemed better to spend the time getting into stuff like lisp that expands you in other directions entirely.

2:26 blbrown: I don't have a the language developer chops to totally describe the issues with ruby, but I just felt that I didn't see any productivity gains with the style of development.

2:27 plus, it is totally interpreted (at least pre 1.8) and slow in most of the benchmarks

2:27 Wizardofwestmarc: yeah, 1.8 and before was at least close to the slowest "big name" vm around

2:27 1.9 supposedly is a lot better, according to a ruby nut I know

2:29 blbrown: this book will be awesome, will also cover setting up the various IDEs . Textmate, VIM, Emacs, JEdit, Eclipse

2:30 only thing, I am certainly a guy that will brush over the finer grain details of a technology, but this is a quantity over quality kind of book

2:32 Wizardofwestmarc: blbrown: if you're going that route I hope you'll include information to point to more in depth data about various things

2:34 blbrown: Wizardofwestmarc, absolutely, the clojure book I believe is 300+ pages on clojure, all or most of the language features. I want to do short 'how to do X' How to write a web client app in X language. How to write a GUI, etc.

2:34 Wizardofwestmarc: blbrown: gotcha

2:47 durka42: interesting... second is kind of slow

2:48 blbrown: Wizardofwestmarc, only thing and I asked this earlier. Do people want to use the java specific libraries on the jvm. For example, people will probably use Jython/Django. But do people use springmvc and jython. hmm

2:48 durka42: and first is twice as fast as second

2:48 Wizardofwestmarc: blbrown: hm, probably depends on the person's background

2:49 blbrown: Wizardofwestmarc, still, how much Java do you take with you when you use a jvm language. I have been asking myself that for 10 years.

2:49 Wizardofwestmarc: hm

2:49 blbrown: durka42 http://barefootdevelopment.blogspot.com/2007/07/jruby-on-rails-performance.html they are showing similar performance. I am sorry, 1 second request is unusable for a web app

2:50 durka42: oh

2:50 i was talking about clojure.core/first and clojure.core/second

2:50 :)

2:50 blbrown: durka42, oops, sorry

2:51 Wizardofwestmarc: actually, first being twice as fast as second doesn't surprise me

2:51 durka42: since second is #(first (rest %))

2:51 Wizardofwestmarc: well, that and the simple fact you're going to the second element of a linked list basically

2:52 so even if it were implemented some other way then (first (rest %))

2:52 unless first doesn't inherently go against the seq of the collection

2:52 durka42: right, although not all collection types are linked lists

2:52 i was testing with vectors

2:52 Wizardofwestmarc: err first and second

2:52 doesn't matter likely

2:52 it's probably doing it as though it were a seq

2:52 blbrown: I wonder if that is where the JVM kicks in with any optimizations

2:52 Wizardofwestmarc: since it's going off of the interface

2:53 blbrown: if you ran that code enough times the JIT might find a way to speed it up

2:53 durka42: in doing the indexed max thing, there is a visible performance difference between using seq-utils/indexed and #(if (> (second %1..., and re-implementing indexed to put the index second, and using #(if (> (first %1...

2:53 Wizardofwestmarc: but you'd need to do a ton of timing tests and see if it suddenly increased in speed after a while.

2:54 durka42: how many items are in your list?

2:54 durka42: ,(* 320 240)

2:54 clojurebot: 76800

2:54 Wizardofwestmarc: hm, yeah

2:54 so even a 30-50 ms delay adds up

2:56 good thing it isn't a larger image <_<

2:56 durka42: 640x480 is unusably slow :(

2:56 and if i set any other resolution...

2:56 you guessed it -- the JVM segfaults!

2:57 did i mention i don't like this library very much

2:58 Wizardofwestmarc: only a couple times, but from what you're saying it probably needs saying a few more ;-)

2:58 is the lib open source so you can dig into the guts of it yourself if need be?

2:58 durka42: alas, i don't think so

3:15 blbrown: http://donsbot.wordpress.com/2009/02/01/haskell-is-a-busy-place/ good grief, haskell is becoming popualar

3:16 durka42: i wonder what such a graph would look like for this channel

3:17 kotarak: The logs are available....

3:17 Wizardofwestmarc: Well, I've heard only good things about Haskell, so not surprised it's getting so much buzz in the IRC channel.

3:18 I know I want to pick it up once I feel fairly comfortable w/clojure.

3:18 especially now that RWH is out

3:18 blbrown: and ironically pretty different from clojure/lisp. I guess more akin to scala. But there is a need for that strong, static typed language

3:18 Wizardofwestmarc: yeah, one where the compiler can save you from lots of dumb mistakes up front

3:19 durka42: well i'll be damned

3:19 Wizardofwestmarc: durka42: ?

3:20 durka42: accumulating a max value using with-local-vars and having the library map my function over pixels is twice as fast as (reduce my-max (my-indexed (extract-pixel-array)))

3:20 Wizardofwestmarc: heh I know how that goes

3:20 I basically rewrote my own version of merge-with for some work I was doing

3:21 then when I switched to using merge-with the loop went from slow but useable to pretty damned fast

3:21 durka42: i had thought the overhead of calling the function would slow it down considerably

3:21 but apparently not

3:22 blbrown: Wizardofwestmarc, durka42 maybe you should submit a patch

3:23 durka42: for making programs slower?

3:24 blbrown: whatever the faster version was

3:25 Wizardofwestmarc: faster was using the built in clojure.core operations

3:25 blbrown: oh

3:25 Wizardofwestmarc: instead of trying to reimplement them (in my case because I totally missed merge-with in the api docs)

3:25 durka42: i wonder whether it's still funcall overhead

3:25 reduce calls a lot of functions

3:27 tomorrow i'll try unrolling reduce into a loop/recur

3:27 and see if my divide and conquer idea buys anything

3:27 Wizardofwestmarc: loop-recur has been slower then reduce and/or map every time I tried it

3:27 durka42: i'll keep that in mind

3:27 Wizardofwestmarc: but I may have been doing it wrong, but fair warning

3:28 err however fair warning even

3:32 durka42: I take it you need all the data at once from this calculation?

3:34 durka42: Wizardofwestmarc: yes, this is real time image processing

3:34 FSVO real

3:34 not very sophisticated processing either

3:35 Wizardofwestmarc: nod

3:35 durka42: i can see why these things are generally written in C

3:35 Wizardofwestmarc: just pondering if lazy might help, but I don't think so

3:35 kotarak: I hope the link works... http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=ptyDXXBHu_Ji3Dbcf-HE7BA

3:35 * Wizardofwestmarc has finally started messing with lazy-cons lately.

3:35 kotarak: The #clojure Traffic

3:35 Wizardofwestmarc: yeah that worked

3:36 durka42: cool

3:36 Wizardofwestmarc: traffic seems... really erratic by that graph

3:41 durka42: goodnight all

3:43 Wizardofwestmarc: hm, sleep sounds like a good idea, take care all.

3:59 cads: can we make a concurrent package installation system for unix?

3:59 are there already such things?

4:02 hiredman: "for unix" is a target the size of a battle ship, or even a small aircraft carrier

4:46 blbrown: kotarak, can you chart that sucker

4:46 nvm

4:47 kotarak I am posting on reddit

5:19 kotarak: blbrown: sorry, was afk. What can I chart?

5:20 blbrown: kotarak, nevermind, I saw the chart on the spreadsheet

5:21 so at present, clojure has about half the amount of traffic as #haskell

5:22 kotarak: How long is Haskell around? The #clojure logs are for roughly one year.

5:28 blbrown: clojure is one of the top 167 blogs out of 8000 on freenode. It is close to couchdb in terms of activity

5:28 kotarak: What happened in October? There was an explosion. Also on the list...

5:31 blbrown: oct 2008, hmm are the logs all in text format?

5:32 kotarak, without even looking, I bet this is where a newb comes on and says clojure/lisp sucks. Just my guess

5:33 kotarak: Up to now, we didn't have the clojure sucks part.

5:34 More the "why can't Japanese not be English" part.

5:36 blbrown: nothing abnormal in the oct logs http://clojure-log.n01se.net/date/2008-10-20.html

5:37 Raynes: blbrown: Clojure has less than a quarter of the amount of traffic #haskell has.

5:37 There are 600 people in there regularly and somewhere around 100 active at most times during the day.

5:38 kotarak: I would guess that #haskell has been around for over 10 years.

5:39 At least it seems like it lol.

5:41 blbrown: Raynes I took the high end of clojure which was 220k at one point. haskells max was 400k

5:41 Raynes: Huh? I'm talking about active users at any given time.

5:42 kotarak: I just took the sizes of the file listing. So the markup will blow up the numbers....

5:42 However the trend should be valid. :)

5:42 Raynes: Oh, you mean activity.

5:42 I was talking about users.

5:43 It's not that there are less users in #haskell I guess Clojure people just talk more.

5:43 Imagine if we had 600 users in here.

5:52 Well at least a higher ratio over activity to users.

5:59 Lau_of_DK: Hey Raynes :)

5:59 Raynes: Hi Lau_of_DK.

6:03 blbrown: in the last 6 hours, jruby had one post

6:04 kotarak: Well. Normally that's the same here on Sunday mornings.

7:29 adakkak_: can someone tell me why I get a "wrong number of args passed" error for the following code http://paste.lisp.org/display/74674

7:30 hiredman: ,(doc filter)

7:30 clojurebot: "([pred coll]); Returns a lazy seq of the items in coll for which (pred item) returns true. pred must be free of side-effects."

7:30 hiredman: the predicate function should be of one argument

7:31 your ik function takes two

7:32 adakkak_: so I should rewrite it as (filter #(ik x %) (p)) ;; if I got the parens right ?

7:33 hiredman: p doesn't need parens around it

7:34 adakkak_: true

7:34 BigTom: Good morning

7:34 hiredman: or (partial ik x)

7:34 instead of the #() form

7:35 adakkak_: hiredman: suppose ik returns a 0, is it possible to do (zero? (paritial ik x)) ? it does not seem to work

7:36 BigTom: WIth lazy collections, the persistant collection that gets generated is at the end of the chain of lazy components isn't it?

7:36 hiredman: zero? does not return a function

7:36 which is what filter wants there

7:37 adakkak_: what I am trying to do is: (def factors (filter (zero? (partial mod x)) primes))

7:37 what is the best way to accomplish that?

7:38 hiredman: BigTom: I am unsure exactly, but I believe all the stuff inbetween must be generated too

7:38 StartsWithK: adakkak_: (def factors (filter #(zero? (mod x %)) primes))

7:39 hiredman: (filter (comp zero? (partial mod x)) primes)

7:40 adakkak_: comp is the composition function?

7:40 hiredman: yes

7:41 BigTom: so in adakkak_'s example (assuming primes is a lazy) there is a primes collection and a filter collection (of course, with Rich's funky collection classes there is only one underlying collection of 'things')

7:41 hiredman: most people seem to prefer function literals though

7:41 adakkak_: why couldn't you do (partial zero? (partial mod x))

7:42 hiredman: BigTom: stuff that is needed is createdd and stuff that isn't is GCed

7:42 BigTom: ok

7:42 hiredman: adakkak_: because zero? takes one arg

7:43 adakkak_: makes sense

7:43 hiredman: (partial mod x) -> gives you a function that takes one arg

7:43 (partial zero? that-function)

7:44 would give a function of no-args that tells you weather a function is 0 or not

7:44 (it isn't)

7:44 (ever)

8:04 turbo24prg: morning

11:35 sooth: How should I take all items in a (lazy) sequence upto and including the first that satisfies a given predicate?

11:38 BigTom: ,(doc filter)

11:38 clojurebot: "([pred coll]); Returns a lazy seq of the items in coll for which (pred item) returns true. pred must be free of side-effects."

11:42 sooth: BigTom: I know of filter but what is a clean way to take all the items until the true element? (foo #evenp '(1 3 5 6 7 8 10)) -> (1 3 5 6)

11:45 ayrnieu: ,(doc take-while)

11:45 clojurebot: "([pred coll]); Returns a lazy seq of successive items from coll while (pred item) returns true. pred must be free of side-effects."

11:45 sooth: ayrnieu: Thanks that what I was looking for.

11:45 ayrnieu: however,

11:45 Chouser: that only gets ... oh, really?

11:45 leafw: that's some sort of lazy sequence generator.

11:45 ayrnieu: ,(take-while even? [1 3 5 6 7 8 10])

11:45 clojurebot: nil

11:46 ayrnieu: ,(take-while #(not (even? %)) [1 3 5 6 7 8 10])

11:46 clojurebot: (1 3 5)

11:46 ayrnieu: do you want the 6 ?

11:46 sooth: ayrnieu: Yeah

11:47 ayrnieu: Erm, I think I can re-write my predicate so that I take-while will be okay.

11:47 ayrnieu: Thanks

11:48 ayrnieu: ,(let [[odd [e1 & _]] (split-with odd? [1 3 5 6 7 8 10])] [odd e1])

11:48 clojurebot: [(1 3 5) 6]

11:49 Chouser: ,(let [s [1 3 5 6 7 8 10]] (concat (take-while odd? s) (take 1 (drop-while odd? s))))

11:49 clojurebot: (1 3 5 6)

11:49 Chouser: bleh

11:52 adakkak_: ,(bigdec (. Math (pow 1000 1000)))

11:52 clojurebot: java.lang.NumberFormatException

11:52 adakkak_: is there a way to make the previous statement work?

11:52 Chouser: ,(.pow 1000M 1000)

11:52 clojurebot: 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

11:53 adakkak_: what does the M do?

11:53 ayrnieu: ,(class 1M)

11:53 clojurebot: java.math.BigDecimal

11:54 adakkak_: thanks

11:59 gnuvince_: ,(time (.pow (bigint 1000) 1000))

11:59 clojurebot: 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

11:59 "Elapsed time: 2.872 msecs"

11:59 gnuvince_: ,(time (reduce * (replicate 1000 1000)))

11:59 clojurebot: 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

11:59 "Elapsed time: 25.843 msecs"

12:03 ayrnieu: (defmacro constant [expr] (eval expr)) ... (defn foo [] ... (recur (* n (constant (.pow 1000M 1000)))))

12:52 lisppaste8: ayrnieu pasted "does this already exist? iterator-seq that clears iterator" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74683

13:05 turbo24prg: is there a way to check how much memory a map consumes?

13:44 Lau_of_DK: Good evening gents

13:45 gnuvince_: hi

13:49 durka42: good afternoon

13:49 Lau_of_DK: durka durka

14:58 So, anyone working on anything interesting?

14:59 leafw: Lau_of_DK: slow Sunday?

14:59 Lau_of_DK: I've been toying with a clojure gui to xmms2

15:00 http://github.com/acardona/xmms2-clj/tree/master

15:00 very tiny. Just to see how to go about making guis in Clojure.

15:01 Lau_of_DK: leafw: Interesting, we can compare notes in a hour or so, I'll be uploading a GUI project to Github based on Qt

15:02 leafw: my only problem with Qt is that on closing the main window and quitting the application, one has to restart the JVM. Otherwise, it segfaults.

15:02 do you know any way around that problem?

15:03 Lau_of_DK: There are a couple of ways to go around it

15:03 mfredrickson: Lau_of_DK: I

15:03 m writing a growl interface

15:03 Lau_of_DK: You can see the simple one in the project I'm upping - The more difficult one, is launching a QtRepl

15:03 mfredrickson: Growl?

15:03 mfredrickson: http://growl.info

15:03 for the mac users among us

15:04 Lau_of_DK: growl looks nice

15:09 mfredrickson: my overall goal is getting popups from test-is when tests fail (or better yet, pass). Like this: http://blog.codefront.net/2007/04/01/get-your-testing-results-via-growl-notifications/

15:09 Lau_of_DK: Ah mon kotarak ! Salut

15:10 kotarak: Do you have an bot waiting? ;)

15:10 Lau_of_DK: mfredrickson: Looks really good - Its a shame its only for Mac OSX

15:10 no...

15:11 mfredrickson: Lau_of_DK: there is a Linux copy called mumbles, there may be others for windows

15:12 Lau_of_DK: Ok - Im 100% a Linux guy, I dislike proprietary software in most regards, so maybe I should look into mumbles

15:49 danlarkin: Hows "Barkin' Larkin'" doing? Almost Ver. 1.0 ?

15:50 danlarkin: Lau_of_DK: hahah oh jeez, that won't be the name either :)

15:50 Lau_of_DK: oh :(

15:50 But how far along are you? I was actually hoping to dig into it soon, putting up some test sites

15:51 danlarkin: Lau_of_DK: went skiing this weekend so no more work done on it since thursday, but I've got a ./manage.clj style system going

15:51 akin to django's ./manage.py

15:51 technomancy: Lau_of_DK: hey, what do you think about clojure-mode coloring lazy forms a bit differently?

15:51 Lau_of_DK: Is it Githubbed yet?

15:51 technomancy: (just read the suggestion on the mailing list)

15:51 Lau_of_DK: technomancy: Example?

15:52 kotarak: technomancy: me too, but we have a nameing convention already: do... doseq, dorun, doall, ...

15:52 technomancy: Lau_of_DK: I just mean picking slightly different colors for map and filter than you would for doseq etc.

15:52 Lau_of_DK: Its not a bad idea, I think visually it could never make it 'worse' than it is

15:53 technomancy: kotarak: yeah, that's enough if it's followed closely I suppose

15:53 kotarak: for just has an unfortunate name...

15:54 Lau_of_DK: You prefer 'foreach' ?

15:54 danlarkin: Lau_of_DK: nope still local only. I did work on the templating system too, you can plug in any arbitrary templating system by writing a loader function

15:54 kotarak: No. for is not a loop.

15:55 Lau_of_DK: danlarkin: Fair enough - Just to let you know, Im looking forward to it

15:55 Btw, are you using ClojureQL for the DB backend? It ought to speed things up a little

15:55 danlarkin: Lau_of_DK: but before I release anything I want to get my own templating system done, I hit a roadblock with that and switched to easier things

15:56 but I've gotta finish it eventually :)

15:56 Lau_of_DK: Cool

15:56 kotarak: Lau_of_DK: For list comprehensions I only no the mathematical notation { (x, y) | x,y \in X, x <= y }. No name here..

15:56 s/no/know

15:57 technomancy: oooh, unicodes.

15:57 danlarkin: Lau_of_DK: no, I haven't started the model code yet :-/

15:57 Lau_of_DK: k

16:01 Wizardofwestmarc: danlarkin: do you have any kind of guestimate on how long it'll take to get something you want to release to the public ready?

16:02 technomancy: danlarkin: what is this library you've got everyone talking about?

16:03 danlarkin: Wizardofwestmarc: I hate estimates!

16:03 technomancy: did you finally find an appropriate prog-rock-related name?

16:03 Wizardofwestmarc: hence guestimate :P

16:03 danlarkin: technomancy: nope, as of yet unnamed

16:03 Wizardofwestmarc: if you don't that's cool, just wondering since I've got some ideas where I may have a web component, and if I could do that in clojure, well...

16:04 and I was currently planning on using Django ;-)

16:04 technomancy: oh, the django port; right

16:04 danlarkin: Wizardofwestmarc: all that I have left to do on my TODO for a 0.01 is getting a templating system in there

16:04 Wizardofwestmarc: \m/

16:04 danlarkin: Wizardofwestmarc: oh... well this won't rival django anytime soon... probably ever

16:04 Wizardofwestmarc: if you get no help? Probably not

16:04 but if you can get it going, community can make a difference

16:05 drewr: Is there a git-hg yet?

16:07 danlarkin: Wizardofwestmarc: it's true, more people would help :)

16:12 Lau_of_DK: Gents, Im trying to consolidate some much needed Qt tools for making simple UIs and couple that with the main goal, which is a flexible parser for Git logs, which in the long run should be able to produce quality documentation, simply from the log. Its now up in version 0.1 @ http://github.com/Lau-of-DK/gitdoc/tree/master

16:15 canadaduane: When I start Aquamacs (first time user) it tells me "Wrong type argument: stringp, nil" in the mini buffer. How can I go about finding where this is coming from?

16:17 ayrnieu: ./src/dk/bestinclass/gitdoc/engine.clj: [ ui (QUiLoader/load (QFile. "/home/lau/coding/lisp/projects/lbj/core/git/git.ui")) ]

16:19 Lau_of_DK: ayrnieu: Was actually fixing that right now, youre too fast

16:20 ayrnieu: canada: I don't see it right now, but there should be a command to debug your ~/.emacs; ask #emacs

16:21 maybe look in *Messages* to see if Emacs told you the command, the way I remember it telling me in those circumstances.

16:21 WizardofAway: About to head out, have a good day/evening everyone.

16:22 Lau_of_DK: Same to you

16:31 Ok, I've added a UI designer with Qt-Designer

16:31 The path is hardcoded, but it works

16:34 clojurebot: clojureql?

16:34 clojurebot: clojureql is http://github.com/Lau-of-DK/clojureql/tree/master

16:34 Lau_of_DK: clojurebot: gitdoc is http://github.com/Lau-of-DK/gitdoc/tree/master

16:34 clojurebot: Ik begrijp

16:43 leafw: is there any "break" statement for a (doseq [...] ...). I am reading from a lazy seq generated from line-seq

16:43 Chousuke: Lau_of_DK: instead of port, you should probably call Jambi "bindings" just to avoid people thinking someone actually ported Qt to java...

16:43 leafw: otherwise I'll have to loop and set the next line as first/rest of line-seq

16:44 kotarak: leafw: (doseq [x (take-while #(some-condition? %) the-seq] ...)

16:44 leafw: thanks kotarak!

16:53 Lau_of_DK: Chousuke: Youre right ofc

18:03 danlarkin: http://blog.higher-order.net/2009/02/01/understanding-clojures-persistentvector-implementation/

18:05 durka42: ^ good read

18:25 blbrown: damn, I lost my remote, can't watch the superbowl. darn

18:39 hiredman: blbrown: don't worry, it is earlier but the steelers seem to be waltzing down the field

18:40 hah

18:42 blbrown: good grief

20:30 cads: danlarkin: am just looking at that one right now

21:04 gnuvince_: Is it possible to download the Java library documentation for offline reading?

21:11 Nafai: gnuvince_: You mean the javadocs?

21:24 gnuvince_: Nafai: yes.

21:26 Nafai: I believe they are downloadable from Sun, can't remember exactly where

21:27 In Ubuntu, I notice there is a sun-java5-doc package

23:00 cooldude127: fuck b-tree

23:00 s

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