#clojure log - Dec 20 2008

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9:14 poiuyt: is there no way to abort a functon without killing the jvm? its incredibly annoying

9:15 Chouser: you may be able to use Thread/interrupt to stop the thread that's running the function.

9:15 of course if that's the Repl thread it's not a terribly useful technique

9:16 if the function is busy printing, you can limit it with *print-length*

9:18 s/can limit/could have limited/

9:25 poiuyt: how do I just kill the function without closing the window?

9:25 if i do C-x k the windows holding the thread is destroyed, not just aborting the jvm

9:25 Chouser: sorry, I don't use emacs or slime.

9:26 many others do, but perhaps they're not here this morning.

9:26 poiuyt: VIM!!!???

9:27 * Chouser smiles

9:27 Chouser: yes

9:27 poiuyt: ill find out where you live

9:29 leafw: er, don't you mess around with vim'ers.

9:48 poiuyt: clojure-load-file: Symbol's value as variable is void: f

9:48 emacs ^^

9:48 why?

10:03 got it

10:28 is there a group or group-by like function in clojure already?

10:28 (group-by ["h" "j" "h"] 0) -> [["h" "h"] ["j"]]

10:28 kotarak: (doc partition)

10:28 clojurebot: Returns a lazy sequence of lists of n items each, at offsets step apart. If step is not supplied, defaults to n, i.e. the partitions do not overlap.; arglists ([n coll] [n step coll])

10:29 kotarak: However it does cut off parts.

10:29 poiuyt: not what i asked for

10:29 kotarak: (partition 2 [1 2 3 4 5]) => ((1 2) (3 4))

10:30 What is your function supposed to do? I'm not sure I understand the 0)

10:31 poiuyt: it groups stuff

10:32 user=> (group-by [[1 2 3] [1 2 3] [4 2 6] [1 2 3]] 0)

10:32 [[[1 2 3] [1 2 3] [1 2 3]] [[4 2 6]]]

10:32 user=> (group-by [[1 2 3] [1 2 3] [4 2 6] [1 2 3]] 1)

10:32 [[[1 2 3] [1 2 3] [4 2 6] [1 2 3]]]

10:33 user/group-by

10:33 ([coll on-elem])

10:33 kotarak: Hmmm... Not that I am aware of.

10:34 poiuyt: Group a collection of items comparing on the on-elem element

10:34 Chouser: clojure.contrib.group-by

10:34 clojure.contrib.seq-utils/group-by

10:35 that takes a predicate and returns a map, but should get you close

11:08 dcnstrct: hey is clojurebot written in clojure ?

11:08 clojurebot, give me source

11:15 Chouser: he is

11:15 clojurebot: where are you?

11:15 clojurebot: http://gist.github.com/27733

11:16 durka: kotarak: would you be interested in a trace of gorilla freezing?

11:16 kotarak: Sure. did you find something?

11:16 durka: unclear

11:16 kotarak: (I had a look, yesterday, but was too sleepy)

11:18 lisppaste8: durka pasted "gorilla freeze" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72449

11:18 durka: ---ALL CAPS denote what I did in Vim

11:20 kotarak: How do I get such a nice trace? (Have no clue about java and its tools so far.)

11:21 Chouser: that's got to be a clojure-aware trace

11:23 kotarak: Yes. There is no prompt sent. As I suspected.

11:23 I'll have a look, why this is the case.

11:23 durka: i didn't know if the proposed clojure.contrib.trace2 ever got into contrib

11:23 but i just took the code from here

11:24 http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/b70cf422ab268cbd

11:24 and I did a (trace-ns) in gorilla.clj and gorilla/repl-ln.clj

11:24 kotarak: This will definitively go to my toolbox. That's really nice.

11:25 Concerning debugging I'm still on stone-age here.

11:28 I'm really a bit puzzled. There is no code which checks for a ( or ).

11:28 I don't know, why eg. *out* is treated differently.

11:30 leafw: a profiler would be nice too: count the time spent on each function, and keep track of the parent chain of function calls.

11:34 kotarak: Hmmm... It seems, that the repl doesn't read the trailing null byte.

11:34 But I don't know, why.

11:34 durka: seems like the bug is triggered when the input doesn't end with a )

11:34 () is fine

11:34 kotarak: Yes.

11:34 durka: "() nonsense" hangs

11:34 "nonsense ()" does not hang

11:37 kotarak: ) is not treated specially...

11:55 Now it gets funny.

11:55 I extract the command and add a 0x0.

11:55 (+ 1 1)

11:55 clojurebot: 2

11:55 kotarak: works

11:55 *out* does not work.

11:56 doing cmd + " " + 0x0.chr instead of simply cmd + 0x0.chr.

11:56 fixes the problem.

11:56 I don't get it.

11:57 durka: thanks for the trace. Will push a fix to the bitbucket repo.

12:26 poiuyt: how do I nest loop-recurs?

12:27 kotarak: poiuyt: recur always goes to the inner-most loop

12:27 or function

12:30 poiuyt: so how do I jump back?

12:33 kotarak: Just don't call recur: (loop [x 0] (cond condition1 (recur 1) condition2 (recur (loop [y 0] (if inner-condition (recur 1) 2 (<-leaves inner loop)))) condition3 3 (<- leaves outer-loop)))

12:34 poiuyt: maybe you can translate the loops in map, reduce and friends.

12:48 poiuyt: well this was something very simple getting ridic hard lol

12:49 I have a list of lists. for each elem in the inner list i want to do something with a sideeffect and then conj that to a function-global vector and then return the vector once everyhting is done

12:49 durka: kotarak: fix confirmed, thanks

12:49 kotarak: durka: np, though I still don't understand, why this is a fix...

12:50 durka: yeah, i know no ruby at all so i can't really speculate there

12:50 kotarak: durka: I'm not sure, that the problem lies in Ruby... But as long as it works for now...

12:51 poiuyt: Can you paste an example? I don't under stand the side effect thing, I don't understand what you want to conj to the vector. The original thing?

12:52 durka: kotarak: gorilla still doesn't setup its maps unless I put a "ruby Gorilla.setup_maps()" at the bottom of gorilla.vim

12:52 poiuyt: http://hpaste.org/13212

12:52 that should return a vector of 2 matrices

12:52 kotarak: durka: Have you put in place the after/... file?

12:53 poiuyt: it is a simplified version of what im doing but illustrates the problem

12:53 durka: the ftplugin?

12:56 kotarak: durka: yes

12:58 lisppaste8: kotarak pasted "maybe with map?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72450

12:59 kotarak: durka: and of course you must be in a clojure buffer.

12:59 poiuyt: maybe like this?

12:59 durka: oh that would be it

13:00 kotarak: durka: in other buffers, it doesn't make sense to capture the keymaps.

13:02 durka: even when i open a .clj file it doesn't seem to work

13:02 gorilla.vim is in ~/.vim/ftplugin/clojure/gorilla.vim

13:03 kotarak: durka: ehm. which? the one from after/ftplugin...?

13:03 durka: yes

13:03 kotarak: hmmm

13:03 durka: is macvim weird about these things?

13:04 kotarak: no. works for me.

13:04 You have activated ftplugins?

13:04 durka: well the syntax highlighting works

13:04 sorry, i'm really a vim newbie

13:05 kotarak: try ":filetype plugin indent on"

13:05 Put this in your .vimrc.

13:12 hi wizz

13:35 poiuyt: kotarak: i did (reduce (reduce...)) dont know what i was thinking before

13:39 if im nesting to #()-closures/functions/whatever ina reducea nd i need to refer to the outer %2 in the inner then i cant use #( in both? i solvced wioth using (fn [acc elem]... and #( %1 %2 so no prob, just wondering

13:39 kotarak: poiuyt: I sometimes stare to hours at a loop and then *poo*f* it vanishes into a reduce with take-while and is 2/3 shorter.

13:40 #() cannot nest. You have to use fn, then

13:40 #() is only short-cut for very simple fns

13:40 Not a replacement for fn

13:56 poiuyt: ok ty

14:04 fffej: quick question - is there a Clojure defined function for absolute or is (Math/abs x) the way to go?

14:06 danlarkin: fffej: Math/abs

14:09 fffej: thanks, is the guidance basically that if it's available in core Java as a simple static func, there probably isn't a Clojure equivalent?

14:10 danlarkin: fffej: you can always consult http://clojure.org/api

14:11 poiuyt: how do I contribute to contrib?

14:11 and how do I do if I want to suggest functions for clojure-core?

14:15 danlarkin: poiuyt: http://clojure.org/contributing

14:16 poiuyt: clojurebot contributing

14:17 danlarkin: clojurebot: contributing?

14:17 clojurebot: No entiendo

14:17 danlarkin: clojurebot: contributing is <reply> http://clojure.org/contributing

14:17 clojurebot: Roger.

14:20 poiuyt: ok i think if i do something ill just host it on github then and people can pull from there

14:20 fffej: i'm just trying to understand recur by implementing my own version of "range", but it's overflowing the stack.

14:20 poiuyt: ffej: post

14:20 clojurebot: paste?

14:20 clojurebot: Pardon?

14:20 poiuyt: clojurebot: paste

14:20 clojurebot: excusez-moi

14:20 fffej: post:

14:20 (defn my-range [start end]

14:20 ((fn [x y accum]

14:20 (if (= x y)

14:20 (concat accum (list x))

14:20 kotarak: poiuyt: you should probably discuss your contribution on the google groups list

14:20 fffej: (recur (inc x) y (concat accum (list x))))) start end nil))

14:21 poiuyt: ffej: you can use recur without loop but often oyu use loop. ill copy it and try it

14:21 kotarak: fffej: http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure

14:21 fffej: thanks kotarak, will use that from now on

14:22 (range 1 50000) works whereas my one gives a stack overflow

14:23 lisppaste8: py pasted "range" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72451

14:24 poiuyt: you are doing some unneccessasry stuff

14:24 i posted another version ^^

14:25 fffej: poiuyt: thanks, conj was the bit I was missing

14:26 I'm a bit confused why change from (concat accum (list x)) to (conj accum x) fixes the stack overflow though? What am I missing?

14:26 lisppaste8: kotarak annotated #72451 with "my-range with lazy-cons" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72451#1

14:28 fffej: thanks kotarak

14:28 so far when I've been playing around I've avoided explicit recursion because of the lack of TCO. I'm guessing that when lazy-cons is used this doesn't apply and the tail call is only evaluated when it's needed?

14:29 kotarak: yes

14:30 fffej: thanks all, that's helped me understand a few things!

14:30 * kotarak has to remember lazy-cons more often

14:33 danlarkin: kotarak: lazy-cons is the best... it's faster _and_ more memory efficient

14:34 fffej: but more difficult to reason about complexity wise

14:34 cljnewb: hello. I have an object that implements java.util.Collection, Iterator, List, etc. how do I simply iterate over it and print its members?

14:34 kotarak: fffej: one must take care for side effects.

14:34 eg. open files and such

14:35 cljnewb: (doseq [x your-coll] (prn x)), not tested

14:36 danlarkin: or if you just wanna see it use (seq your-coll)

14:38 cljnewb: kotark & danlrkin: thanks.

14:41 poiuyt: and there is no problem with lazy-cons as far as blowing stack somehow? like in Haskell when not using foldr foldl' etc correctly it all works fine until you hit some cornercase and blow the stack and have to change it to use strictness instead

14:41 are lazy expressions building up large thunks that can blow the stack?

14:42 and when doing count on a lazy sequence does that take the same time as on a normal one?

14:44 kotarak: poiuyt: In general count on seq is O(n), since you don't know the length in advance (eg. line-seq). For collections (vectors, maps, sets, lists, ...) it's O(1). I'm not sure about a seq based on such a collection.

14:46 fffej: there's a good book about this "Purely Functional Data Structures". It talks about how to understand the performance of an algorithm when it's evaluated lazily

14:49 aperotte: I know this is relatively new, but does anyone know if there are plans for JVM support of the new OpenCL standard?

14:50 Kerris7: fffej: I hope to "port" that book to Scala one day :V

14:52 poiuyt: count on lists are O(n) right? it seems so when timingat least

14:52 kotarak: poiuyt: O(1)

14:52 hmmm

14:52 poiuyt: (time (count (range 1000000)))

14:52 "Elapsed time: 45.857505 msecs"

14:52 (time (count (range 1)))

14:52 "Elapsed time: 0.047772 msecs"

14:52 fffej: doesn't that tell you more about range?

14:53 poiuyt: lol

14:53 kotarak: poiuyt: yes. range is a lazy-seq.

14:53 poiuyt: (list ....) are lists.

14:54 poiuyt: but still the same

14:54 user=> (time (count b))

14:54 "Elapsed time: 0.196114 msecs"

14:54 1

14:54 user=> (time (count a))

14:54 "Elapsed time: 45.200996 msecs"

14:54 ai i see

14:54 fffej: but range is lazily evaluated, so you need to force it first I guess

14:54 kotarak: http://clojure.org/data_structures#toc43 says "count is O(1)"

14:55 poiuyt: es when doing (apply list (range 10000))

14:55 thne timing it is the same

14:55 also lazy-seq allows loooong lists where normal ones blows the heao

14:55 p

14:57 kotarak: Gorilla=> (def y (apply list (range 100000)))

14:57 #'user/y

14:57 Gorilla=> (time (count y))

14:57 "Elapsed time: 0.029 msecs"

14:57 100000

14:57 Gorilla=> (time (count (range 100000)))

14:57 "Elapsed time: 9.055 msecs"

14:57 100000

14:58 Gorilla=>

15:00 poiuyt: yes as i noticed

15:00 anyway where can isee the implementation of # as the function-shorthand?

15:01 kotarak: poiuyt: don't know of hand the doc, but #(foo %) is shorthand for (fn [x] (foo x))

15:02 poiuyt: http://clojure.org/reader#toc2

15:11 poiuyt: hmm does a macro always need parenthesis to be called? I always got the impression that macros was this "divine" thing that you could do superawesome stuff with but what I really like about clojure is that sit is so close to purely functional and immutable datstructures. macros i still have never needed one.

15:11 i cant do: (+ 2 q 3 add 5) -> 10? where q is a macro: (defmacro q [a b c]

15:11 `(~b ~a ~c))

15:11 kotarak: macros are the "divine" thing you can do superawesome stuff with. ;)

15:12 But they are also this super 100Mt atomic bomb, which blows your code of the water.

15:12 durka: is there a function that will "reset" clojure

15:12 arohner: poiuyt: macros are fns that are called at compile time

15:12 durka: like, if i managed to start some agents at the repl with infinite loops or memory leaks or something

15:12 arohner: that just happen to return lists

15:12 durka: and i want to terminate them all instead of cleaning up my mess

15:13 kotarak: poiuyt: (apply + 2 (q 3 add 5))

15:14 Arg.

15:14 poiuyt: arohner: yes they are functions but i thought od them more like: when some character or word is occured, replace that word with this. but having to use parenthesises greatly reduces the dsl-ishness of them

15:14 kotarak: Forget the apply

15:16 poiuyt: what a lisp can do, is a DSL in lisp style. For more, you need an external DSL.

15:28 dreish: I check http://www.google.com/trends?q=clojure%2Cocaml&ctab=0&geo=all&date=ytd&sort=0 every day. When Clojure passes OCaml, confetti will appear out of nowhere at my house.

15:30 walters: not a fan of staring at type inference clashes?

15:31 dreish: No, nothing against OCaml specifically. It's just an easy-to-google language at a low enough popularity level to make it a reasonable one to measure Clojure against.

15:32 walters: ah

15:34 danlarkin: O'caml big in france eh

15:34 walters: it originated from INRIA

15:37 triddell: When I println a data structure I get from a java call is looks like:

15:37 (#=(java.util.ArrayList. [#=(java.util.HashMap. {id MachineStandards, title Standards, column 1, app-context machine, row 1, skin nil}) #=(java.util.HashMap. {id MachineInventory, title Inventory, column 2, app-context machine, row 1, skin nil})])

15:37 nil nil)

15:37 (#=(java.util.ArrayList. [#=(java.util.HashMap. {id MachineStandards, title Standards, column 1, app-context machine, row 1, skin nil}) #=(java.util.HashMap. {id MachineInventory, title Inventory, column 2, app-context machine, row 1, skin nil})]) nil nil)

15:38 Is this a list with a vector containing two Hashmaps and two nils?

15:39 I'm try to get a sequence of Maps from this and can't seem to get it.

15:39 danlarkin: triddell: well those are java containers

15:39 triddell: right, just trying to read it properly

15:39 and then just get the maps as a sequence

15:40 dreish: (first (seq above-thing)) doesn't work?

15:40 Oops, I mean (seq (first ...))

15:40 poiuyt: what is the preferred way to package clojure programs? should I always have each file in a separate namespace?

15:42 triddell: dreish (seq (first ... gets me: ((#<Entry id=MachineStandards> #<Entry title=Standards> #<Entry column=1> #<Entry app-context=machine> #<Entry row=1> #<Entry skin=null>)

15:43 which I don't think is a map any more

15:43 arohner: poiuyt: it's a good rule of thumb to use the (ns ... ) macro,

15:43 that pushes you in the direction of of file per ns

15:43 dreish: Oh, weird, first got you the first thing in the ArrayList (the HashMap) instead of the ArrayList itself. I wonder where the outer parens came from.

15:43 kotarak: poiuyt: ns do not correlate to files. you can use several files for one namespace.

15:44 dreish: It looks like you ought to be able to just do (seq above-thing).

15:44 danlarkin: triddell: so try (apply hash-map (seq (first above-thing)))

15:54 triddell: That seems to do it... now I have this:

15:54 ({#=(java.util.HashMap. {id MachineStandards, title Standards, column 1, app-context machine, row 1, skin nil}) #=(java.util.HashMap. {id MachineInventory, title Inventory, column 2, app-context machine, row 1, skin nil})}

15:54 nil nil)

15:55 combined... not sure why it's a list with two nils on the end but I'll see if I can use the first map, thanks

16:07 AWizzArd: clojurebot: max people

16:07 clojurebot: max people is 116

16:16 poiuyt: i dont quite get how to use namespaces

16:16 (ns linear-algebra)

16:16 how should i then import it from another file?

16:16 and how do i refer to names from that namespace?

16:17 kotarak: (ns other.namespace (:require linear-algebra)) (linear-algebra/foo)

16:18 poiuyt: and do i do load-file first or how does it find the namespace?

16:19 kotarak: put (ns linear-algebra) ... in a file /linear_algebra.clj in your classpath.

16:19 The rest does require.

16:22 hiredman: I think good form requires at least two segments in the ns

16:22 poiuyt.linear-algebra

16:44 clojurebot: ,(println "pong")

16:44 clojurebot: I don't understand.

16:44 hiredman: ,(println "pong")

16:44 clojurebot: pong

16:45 poiuyt: is there no way to prepend a macro?

16:45 like clojure doe salready

16:45 #(+ % 3)

16:46 hiredman: poiuyt: sounds like you are talking about read macros

16:46 poiuyt: so i can do |(2 + 3) instead of (+ 2 3)

16:46 kotarak: poiuyt: no. this is not possible.

16:46 hiredman: rhickey doesn't seem to want people to that

16:46 kotarak: the problem is, you can't resolve such reader macros.

16:47 what happens, why I have to a |... macro?

16:47 which to use?

16:47 hiredman: http://markmail.org/message/zp4minh63ewqsdtj

16:53 poiuyt: yeah well if theyare what they seem to be those are what i really need. normal macros i really never ever nee

16:53 d

16:54 kotarak: poiuyt: Funny. I never needed reader macros up to now. (Maybe with exception of #())

16:56 hiredman: poiuyt: why not just use a normal macro?

16:57 (| 3 + 2)

16:57 zakwilson: CLSQL does very useful things with reader macros.

17:06 poiuyt: yes exactly what i was thinking

17:06 i hate sql-statements ugly long. want to make a simple dsl for taking away allt he boilerplate from sql

17:06 it is jsut cleanrer having the macro-symbol outside the expr

17:16 Lau_of_DK: Good evening gents

17:16 kotarak: hi lau

18:24 mmcgrana: I know of assoc, assoc-in, and update-in, but there is no "update". e.g. (update {:wins 2 :losses 3} :losses inc) => {:wins 2 :losses 4} Is there a function for this with a different name?

18:25 kotarak: mmcgrana: you can use (update-in {...} [:losses] inc), but I also noted that this missed.

18:25 Also get-in has no default value.

18:25 Maybe we need some polish here?

18:28 mmcgrana: yeah i think so

18:31 drewr: I wonder if this is worthy of core:

18:31 (defn toggle [_atom]

18:31 (swap! _atom #(not %)))

18:35 lisppaste8: mmcgrana pasted "update" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72456

18:36 mmcgrana: note that this is just the base case for update-in, thus we could replace that case in update-in with a call to update

18:43 kbarros: Hi folks, I have a question about the slime command M-. (i.e., slime-edit-definition). How is it supposed to work?

18:44 If I change a file, should M-. use the updated information?

18:50 mmcgrana: i might work up a proper patch for the update thing, but gtg now

19:22 Lau_of_DK: Anyone up ?

19:23 Ive got a simple job, convert (> one two) to "one > two". Is there anything built into Clojure which allows me to do this elegantly ?

19:29 Chouser: (defn f [[a b c]] (list b a c))

19:30 RSchulz: Ha! That's exactly what I was going to ask... How general is the transformation you require?

19:30 Arbitrary infix -> prefix parsing?

19:32 hiredman: I seem to recall this in some cs class

19:32 RSchulz: That's good. Having taken CS classes is a good thing...

19:33 danlarkin: use interleave?

19:33 hiredman: at the time I did not have internet hat home so I wa busy goofing off on the laptop so I don't remember

19:34 danlarkin: sorry, I mean interpose

19:34 (doc interpose)

19:34 clojurebot: Returns a lazy seq of the elements of coll separated by sep; arglists ([sep coll])

19:34 danlarkin: throw a wrapper around that IMO

19:37 RSchulz: Face it! Infix -> Prefix requires a parser. Trying to finesse it with things like (interpose ...) just don't cut it.

19:37 They're two different realms, and never the twain shall meet!

19:44 danlarkin: but this is prefix -> infix

19:44 much easier!

19:47 RSchulz: Yes. Magic is always easier...

19:47 Oh. Prefix TO Infix. Trivial..

19:48 A slight complication ensues if you want minimal parenthesization of the resulting infix.

19:50 gnuvince_: What's with all the infix talk lately? Do people really want to write 2 + 3 instead of (+ 2 3)?

19:51 * danlarkin prefers prefix

19:51 danlarkin: 2nd place to infix

19:51 distant last place to posfix *shudder*

19:52 RSchulz: gnuvince_: Yes, people _do_ want to write that.

19:52 What can you do?

19:52 gnuvince_: RSchulz: flame them until they don't want to?

19:52 RSchulz: Well... It's worth a try!

19:52 gnuvince_: ;)

19:53 RSchulz: You want to write WHAT?!?! 2 + 3 * 4 = What? 14? 20? Say what you mean, dammit!!

19:54 gnuvince_: I feel that not having infix maths in Lisp languages is less of a problem than these people think. The most common operations are increasing and decreasing values by one

19:54 I don't think a lot of people spend their days writing quadratic equations in their programs

19:54 RSchulz: "Syntactic sugar leads to cancer of the semicolon." -- Alan Perlis.

19:55 ...RIP...

20:00 gnuvince_: This guy had some good quotes

20:45 hiredman: I have a seq of vectors, I would like to eliminate all the vectors with duplicate data in a certain slot

20:52 Chouser: hiredman: "certain slot" as known by its index?

20:52 hiredman: yeah

20:52 woa

20:52 http://clojure.org/sequences <-- changed

20:53 Chouser: indeed. what do you think?

20:53 hiredman: uh

20:53 cuts down on duplication I guess

20:53 Chouser: biab

20:54 hiredman: the seq is registration data, but some people registered twice, with slightly different data

20:59 Chouser: oh, I see.

21:03 (vals (reduce #(assoc % (nth %2 1) %2) {} theseq)

21:07 hiredman: thanks

21:08 let me try and figure that out

21:08 ok

21:13 wonderful

21:13 Chouser: or (vals (into {} (for [v theseq] [(nth v 1) v])))

21:14 eh. nevermind. use 'reduce'

21:16 hiredman: works great

21:17 you are a gentlemen and a scholar, and there are only four of us left

21:28 karmazilla: is there an API page for contrib?

21:29 Chouser: karmazilla: nope.

21:30 karmazilla: but 'doc' and 'find-doc' work

21:32 karmazilla: yeah, but quite a substitute if overview is what you want.

21:33 Chouser: I agree -- contrib is under-documented.

21:34 karmazilla: what about test-is tutorials?

21:38 Chouser: test-clojure uses test-is a bunch

21:40 karmazilla: yeah, just remembered that as well

21:55 I think the test-that macro in clojure.contrib.test-clojure.evaluation looks like something that would be nice to have in test-is itself

22:00 dpthfltr: clojure + htmlunit FTW

22:01 I was doing this kind of testing with Ruby before.. the clojure version looks much more concice even though htmlunit is more verbose than Ruby's WWW::Mechanize

22:02 and the clojure version is somehow faster even though a whole extra browser engine is being loaded... weird

22:03 Rick Hickey I kiss you

22:03 ok that is all

22:03 goodnitez

23:20 hiredman: clojurebot: ping?

23:52 lisppaste8: jawolfe pasted "lazy concat?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72461

23:52 jawolfe: Hi, what's the proper idiom for *truly* lazy concatenation ?

23:53 (in situations where lazy-cat is not applicable since the number of arguments is not known at compile-time)

23:53 As you can see in the above post, while it claims to be lazy, concat seems to get ahead of itself.

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